when the tale becomes taller than the fish

[Chris Shelton]

Certainly can be done Philip, Elandspad has been known to produce those numbers and better, but by the law of averages, had one of the 'legends' been on the same beat at the same time when one of us 'lesser successful anglers' have caught say 60 odd, then surely these 'masters' would have gone on to catch in excess of 200 in the same time frame?
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My personal best on the Witte for example was 6 browns in one day. We all know how illusive the browns can be up there. Now had 'D............n' been there on the same day, the mind boggles.......20 plus fish....on the Witte...in one day!? Possible

[Chris Shelton]

I remember spending a day with Jonathan Rogers when I was 12 years old, between the 11th and 14th swims on the Witels. I went along to observe and learn and didn't fish. This guy could really fish well, casting equally well with both hands. I personally witnessed and counted 14 browns taken on his Carabu Spiders in that stretch, and he was fishing slowly and thoroughly. My dad and his friend elected to go downstream and fish back to the base camp at the 11th swim in the same space of time and they went on to catch 12 browns. So basically you can say, between the 10th and 14th swims, 26 fish were taken in one day. A very good bag by brown trout standards!

Then again, that was the Witels. The Witte is an entirely different story altogether.

[ShaunF]

You guys can say what you like about the now infamous person referred to so many times in this thread. The fact of the matter is that he is a mate of mine, who I speak to on a fairly regular basis, and not someone I've found to be a bullshitter of great proportions. He has his blank days just like you and I do and has never been afraid to tell me when this has been the case, and yes he has his good days too, just like you and I, although they are a little more frequent than mine, but I'll put that down to skill. Also, having fished with him on quite a few occassions, some in particularly difficult situations, he's ended up being the only guy catching fish with the rest of the guys doing far worse or even blanking.

I have met far worse bullshitters in my life.

In anycase, feel free to draw your own conclusions.

[Umhlangarox]

IMHO i see no reason not to believe good fisherman when i hear these stories. Just to put it into perspective, my first time on the Elanspad i fished with Kevin Cox. Through out the day i ended up landing 19 fish and he must have landed a similar number. During the course of the day i was embarrasing at times and probaly lost as many as i caught. So if we tally this its very easy that me and Kev combined could have caught well over 70 fish in one outing.

I think it all boils down to the class of the fisherman and the amount of fish in the river. If somebody had gone and fished the same stretch as me and Kev the next day and said they caught 100 fish i wouldnt not believe them cause the fact is that the fish are there. At the end of the day i believe it all boils down to the skill of the fisherman. Better fishermen will almost always catch more fish then less skilled fisherman

[Chris Shelton]

You guys can say what you like about the now infamous person referred to so many times in this thread. The fact of the matter is that he is a mate of mine, who I speak to on a fairly regular basis, and not someone I've found to be a bullshitter of great proportions. He has his blank days just like you and I do and has never been afraid to tell me when this has been the case, and yes he has his good days too, just like you and I, although they are a little more frequent than mine, but I'll put that down to skill. Also, having fished with him on quite a few occassions, some in particularly difficult situations, he's ended up being the only guy catching fish with the rest of the guys doing far worse or even blanking.

I have met far worse bullshitters in my life.

In anycase, feel free to draw your own conclusions.

Hi Shaun. I have no doubt that the man is good and as we all know, he has contributed a great deal to the enjoyment of the sport with the wealth of information he has published. Having said this, I do think there is a lot of rivalry amongst the top guys and sometimes figures do tend to get a bit distorted in later exchanges. Perhaps that is part of fishing. Fishermen over the centuries have been known to inflate their figures and lengths a bit and I guess that is all part of it.

I tend to be a perfectionist in this regard, and perhaps a little too honest, but I have nothing to prove. I will be the first to admit that I drew a blank on the Molenaars on the 1st of September. I had no witnesses either so I could have put any figure to my day, but for what?
I have been fishing too long to know that it happens to all of us, so why hide it. One thing you guys can be sure about, when I say I released a 15 incher, it was 15 inches, as per the inch markings on my rod, and not 18 inches!

In defense of your friend, he was also in the company of a bullshitter of note on that day(bless him!), so perhaps just a little bit rubbed off on him!

I refuse to let the numbers that others in my company are catching upset me when they are using methods that I dont feel like adopting on the same day though. The few I get on my dry on the stream are worth more to me than the bucket loads that my fellow angler may be picking up on the nymph, and I have made peace with that. I have done the numbers thing, been there, done that. But, having said this, to each their own. As long as we all enjoy ourselves, that is what it is all about.

[Chris Shelton]

Better fishermen will almost always catch more fish then less skilled fisherman

Too true Matt. One cannot really compare ability with a fellow angler when adopting different techniques though. In fairness, to compare apples to apples, then ideally both should be either nymphing or dry fly fishing. I have had my days on the Elandspad where I lost count in excess of 75 fish on the dry, but that doesnt make me a better fisherman than someone with equal experience who perhaps only took 25 on the same day on a nymph, or vice versa!

A little brown trout stream quickly brings one down a peg or two as far as the numbers thing goes though.

[KevinC]

A little brown trout stream quickly brings one down a peg or two as far as the numbers thing goes though.

Geez, I couldn't agree more! In my opinion, a trip up the Witte is incredibly successful if a single brown trout is landed...

[Umhlangarox]

Too true Matt. One cannot really compare ability with a fellow angler when adopting different techniques though. In fairness, to compare apples to apples, then ideally both should be either nymphing or dry fly fishing. I have had my days on the Elandspad where I lost count in excess of 75 fish on the dry, but that doesnt make me a better fisherman than someone with equal experience who perhaps only took 25 on the same day on a nymph, or vice versa!

A little brown trout stream quickly brings one down a peg or two as far as the numbers thing goes though.

Ya it must be said that i far prefer catching on a dry fly even if my numbers are half that of somebody catching on nymphs. It is all down to the fisherman and his personal preferance when it come to technique!

As for the brown trout streams, only 3 more months and i will be living in CPT and hopefully i will get a chance to try out some brown streams

[ShaunF]

I hear you Chris. It just seemed a bit out of character when I think about the person who was being discussed.

Although he's been in the game for many years, and is considered one of the "top" guys, he is totally anti-competition when it comes to flyfishing, except when it comes to the friendly stuff - determining what you have to drink that evening !

In any case, that bring me to this whole subjective topic of how the "top" guys became the "top" guys if they actually don't really compete. I reckon that the guys fishing competitively in the SA team etc would probably fish circles around the likes of Tom and others who are considered by many to be in the upper echelon of fly fishing in SA. What comes through for them I think is their personalities and experiences they are willing to share that gains them the respect they have rather than simply their actual skill.

[Chris Shelton]

Geez, I couldn't agree more! In my opinion, a trip up the Witte is incredibly successful if a single brown trout is landed...

Thanks for backing me up on this Kevin. Coming from you puts things nicely in perspective.

And guys, those who have, like me, fished with Kevin, will bear me up in saying, he is a very gifted and superb fly fisherman, and one who will certainly hold his own in any company. There are others, Neil Rowe, Darryl Lambert.....to name a few....and they will all agree that a brown trout stream is the great leveller. Any amount of exageration in this regard will quickly be questioned and regarded with extreme suspicion by those of us who know....so why do it? You will only be making an arse of yourself and you can expect to be criticised as a result.