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Thread: Dubbing, the foundation, cornerstone and building blocks of fresh water fly tying.

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Largie Whisperer View Post
    Gary regarding your evolutions do you strip old flies and only carry the new ones or do you keep the old flies as well? Just like to know for interest sake cause personally I strip old flies and only keep new ones.
    Hi Gerrit,

    I usually only carry the latest version in my box. I *know* that if I open the box & have the option of old versus new, I am not going to fish the old fly, so why boyher having it in the box.

    Where possible, I will strip old flies.
    Most of my flies are too well tied & have superglue on the lead under the thorax to be easily stripped down to the hook.
    Spending 5 minutes to remove all of that, when it takes me less time than to tie a new fly seems like a waste of time.
    I value my time more than the materials.

    So unless I want the tungsten bead, where I can just break off the eye of the fly and remove, or really need the hook, I usually donate these to other anglers, especially juniors. That said, I have many friends who have very happily received flies from me which are perfectly usable, but have (as per my latest version), the wrong:
    • hook model
    • bead size/colour
    • rib size/colour
    • body/thorax colour/material


    As far as they are concerned, there is nothing wrong with the "old" fly and enjoy telling me when they catch fish on it, while fishing with me.
    Last edited by GGY; 19-07-12 at 12:37 PM.
    Gary
    Flytyer - Where great flytying begins

  2. #32
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    very interesting, there are some applications, were I will use it, but there are others where I prefer dubbing.
    Korrie Broos

    Don't go knocking on Death's door, ring the bell and run like hell. He hates it. (anon)
    Nymphing, adds depth to your fly fishing.
    Nymphing, is fly fishing in another dimension

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGY View Post
    Hi Gerrit,

    Where possible, I will strip old flies.
    Most of my flies are too well tied & have superglue on the lead under the thorax to be easily stripped down to the hook.
    Spending 5 minutes to remove all of that, when it takes me less time than to tie a new fly seems like a waste of time.
    I value my time more than the materials.

    So unless I want the tungsten bead, where I can just break off the eye of the fly and remove, or really need the hook, I usually donate these to other anglers, especially juniors.
    I hear you but there are times when you just have to especially with expensive materials like eyes for example and possibly a hook too. Off topic for strip sessions I use a cautery (to burn off thread and glues,etc) and or industrial pliers, those heavy duty ones for whatever the cautery can't do.
    Gerrit Viljoen

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korrie View Post
    very interesting, there are some applications, were I will use it, but there are others where I prefer dubbing.
    Agreed, but for me, those are normally very few and far between. In those cases, I tie up ~6 flies of that type & keep in my test/battle box.
    I have done as much as I can to make my fly tying & pattern selection as simple as possible.

    BTW - the coloured UV flashabou for dry fly bodies is AWESOME.
    Gary
    Flytyer - Where great flytying begins

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Largie Whisperer View Post
    I hear you but there are times when you just have to especially with expensive materials like eyes for example and possibly a hook too. Off topic for strip sessions I use a cautery (to burn off thread and glues,etc) and or industrial pliers, those heavy duty ones for whatever the cautery can't do.
    Agreed - like I said, where cost (bead/eye/hook) or necessity (need the hook) dictate, I will strip the flies.

    I don't own a cautery, but it must really be worth it for me to spend the time with pliers to strip a fly.
    Gary
    Flytyer - Where great flytying begins

  6. #36
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    I use various natural dubbings and a few synthetics, and some of my own blends of both. My favorite naturals are seal, squirrel, mongoose, Cape fox, and jackall. My synthetics are mostly those with a sparkle, and are rarely used on their own, but mostly in a blend.. I dont use ice dubbing much at all. I also make dubbing brushes from my blends, and use them on nymphs mainly, and larger dries.
    Disclaimer.... none of my posts are intended to be "expert advice"..just opinions from someone who is willing to help where he can.

  7. #37
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    Gary
    I recall a conversation I had with Jiri Klima on one of the rivers in the CZ rep we fished.
    I just landed a brown on one of my "generic" patterns and showed it to him.
    He looked at it and replied "You will catch most fish with it, but not the very wise ones"

    That was a little WOW moment for me, and from that moment I looked at flies with different eyes.
    As you said, you have a couple in your box, for the wise fish. It is for those Wise ones, that I tie my flies, and were I use my special dubbings. Because if it will catch the Wise Ones, it will sure as hell catch most other.
    Korrie Broos

    Don't go knocking on Death's door, ring the bell and run like hell. He hates it. (anon)
    Nymphing, adds depth to your fly fishing.
    Nymphing, is fly fishing in another dimension

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korrie View Post
    Gary
    I recall a conversation I had with Jiri Klima on one of the rivers in the CZ rep we fished.
    I just landed a brown on one of my "generic" patterns and showed it to him.
    He looked at it and replied "You will catch most fish with it, but not the very wise ones"

    That was a little WOW moment for me, and from that moment I looked at flies with different eyes.
    As you said, you have a couple in your box, for the wise fish. It is for those Wise ones, that I tie my flies, and were I use my special dubbings. Because if it will catch the Wise Ones, it will sure as hell catch most other.
    Hi Korrie,

    You misunderstand. I don't carry limited qty's of specific patterns for "wise fish". The patterns that I tie up in limited numbers are those that are for specific, localised immitations - such as the #8-10 burrowing mayfly nymph for the San River, Poland, that uses both dubbing & marabou/flioplume in the immitation.

    The bulk of the patterns in my box I would not call "generic" - rather they do imitate specific mayfly species (the GForce is the best baetis pattern I have ever fished), but are very quick & simple to tie. They most certainly are designed to catch the wise fish.

    My black/brown/olive mayfly patterns just follow a certain tying style, as per the website article. The dubbing's that I use have been tweaked over the years to best imitate the natural, but only a small amount is used in the thorax.
    The patterns are kept slim & trim, like the natural, without too much bulk in the thorax. This is where too many people go wrong, having patterns that are too thick in the body, with grossly outsized thoraxes.

    For emerger mayfly patterns, a sparse dubbed body is a must. For caddis pupa, I only usually only use dubbing for the thorax.
    Here I use a tan and/or golden olive holographic dubbing blend in a specific fly to imitate the emerger, where most people are fishing a more generic GRHE pattern.
    Last edited by GGY; 20-07-12 at 11:53 AM.
    Gary
    Flytyer - Where great flytying begins

  9. #39
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    There is an exception in my view regarding large thoraxes i.e Trico's. To get a huge football shape wingcase going you need to match that with a slightly oversized thorax. See here. Otherwise I agree with your post Gary well written.
    Gerrit Viljoen

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Largie Whisperer View Post
    There is an exception in my view regarding large thoraxes i.e Trico's. To get a huge football shape wingcase going you need to match that with a slightly oversized thorax. See here. Otherwise I agree with your post Gary well written.
    I agree 100% with Gerrit wrt Trico patterns, which require a proportionally longer (maybe not larger) thorax - say 1/2 of the fly body length, as opposed to 1/4~1/3 for a more "normal" mayfly pattern. The Trico is a special case.

    Unfortunately, many people are effectively tying all their mayflies as Trico patterns, including the #12&14 imitations.
    Gary
    Flytyer - Where great flytying begins

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