Building my first rod - HELP!!

[FishWhisperer]

Got a bee in my bonnet! I really want to build a rod for small stream fishing. Want it to be as small as possible, around #0 (or smaller) and around 7 foot in lenght. Dont know if i want a split cane or a grafite rod, but i do want the performance! What are the benefits and drawbacks of each? I dont know where to start or what books to read or what equipment and supplies i'll need... I need a "complete idiots guide"! Thought i'd get a bit of direction before i start researching... any ideas/pointers would be greatly appreciated!
I'll start reading the previous threads in the mean time.

[rols]

hi matt
i don't think it's gonna be as easy as "give me the five steps to building a rod"
from what i've seen posted. i think your idea of going back on old posts is important. these guys have thrashed out ideas from thread wraps, to colour, to almost the phase of the moon. good luck and you will get all the help you need here.

[FishWhisperer]

Ok, maybe im getting ahead of myself. Just did a bit of a basic search and its a lot more involved than i thought! (wich I'm getting more exited about)Basics first. Split cane or grafite? Does split cane perform as well as the more modern grafite rods. What is more difficult to construct and which do you guys prefer useing and why? Keep in mind i want to throw the lightest line possible. I kind of just need a direction to aim before a start with the "research phase". Any feedback?

[KevinE]

Matt, take some time and read up as much as you can about rodbuilding. Some good resources:
1. This forum
2. rodbuildingforum.com
3. rodbuilding.org
4. http://flyfisherman.com/rodbuilding//index.html
5. http://shop.mudhole.com/Rod-Building-101

I'm about to build my first rod but have already been researching and learning for 2 months. So much to learn, don't jump in until you know what it is all about.

Regarding cane vs graphite: to build a cane rod from scratch involves a huge amount of work and it is a very expensive game. You cut and plane hexagonal sections according to a very precise taper, then fit together, construct ferrules, etc - a real art. Alternatively you could buy a cane blank and complete the build, but I wouldn't. Rather build from a graphite blank, much more economical, once you've got this sussed and if the bee is still under that bonnet, you could then look at cane again.

Anyway, cane works best in the 3 to 6 weight range, I haven't heard of 0 weight cane rods.

[dpammenter]

hey Matt,

great idea! build a rod! it's one of the most rewarding things i've done. and it's great fun doing it. the freedom that you have to do your own customization is overwhelming.

as the guys have mentioned - read, read and read more. the more you read about the process, the better your efforts will turn out. i had my blanks for a very long time before i started buiding. check the sites that Kevin has mentioned. there is some valuable info on there.

here is some info on using spar varnish as a wrap finish
here is a list of about 100 small rod buiding tips
here is a pretty good guide to buiding a graphite rod


your questions regarding cane vs graphite, basically boil down to your budget. if you have the time and money to spend on the correct equipment to build a cane rod, then my advice would be build a graphite rod first! learn first before moving on to the true art that cane rod building is. to give you some idea on prices (ok, these are slightly inflated because they're from Bellinger www.genuinebellinger.com), if you were to buy 'ready to wrap' cane blanks, you're looking at around US$450. that's more than Sage blanks. the suggested retail price of the Sage TXL 7'10" 0wt blanks is US$258. that's a HUGE difference and it's an awesome rod. so that's just a little comparison for you. naturally, you don't have to buy blanks at that price. there are much cheaper versions. i've recently bought TFO 5wt blanks for a shade under R600, and my current blanks cost less than R150!!! (ok that was about 2 years back, but it's still cheap)

there are a lot more components required and the cost can add up quickly if you don't take care to stick within your budget, so shop around, ask lots of questions. there are a lot of experienced guys on here that are very willing to help - i know, cos i've asked them all! (thanks guys)

good luck!

cheers,
Devlin

[FishWhisperer]

Decided on graphite, but i do want to start with really good stuff. This is going to be my pride and joy i know and it will just eat away at my insides if i did all that work and made a rod that i loved but knew that for a little extra money in the begining, the performance could be that much better!!
So i looked at G.Loomis and could only find 3# blanks and i then saw this Sage:

Model Length Pcs. Line Tip Butt Wt. Price
00710-3 TXL 7'10 3 00 3.5 .275 11/16 $248.00

Which is exactly what im looking for but WOW... Thats expensive!! A new one is $520!! Not to mention the (round about) $60 for the reel seat etc etc.. For that amount of money i might as well buy a finnished product??
Thats from Mudhole. Does anyone know of any better deals (on the blank)?? Oh and would you get the same guaretees on the blanks as you would on "factory' Sage??

[Michael]

Decided on graphite, but i do want to start with really good stuff. This is going to be my pride and joy i know and it will just eat away at my insides if i did all that work and made a rod that i loved but knew that for a little extra money in the begining, the performance could be that much better!!
So i looked at G.Loomis and could only find 3# blanks and i then saw this Sage:

Model Length Pcs. Line Tip Butt Wt. Price
00710-3 TXL 7'10 3 00 3.5 .275 11/16 $248.00

Which is exactly what im looking for but WOW... Thats expensive!! A new one is $520!! Not to mention the (round about) $60 for the reel seat etc etc.. For that amount of money i might as well buy a finnished product??
Thats from Mudhole. Does anyone know of any better deals (on the blank)?? Oh and would you get the same guaretees on the blanks as you would on "factory' Sage??

*Cringe*

okay...I would seriously advise against building your first rod on a G.Loomis blank! One stuff up and it's all that money down the drain. Who's gonna care about performance if you have epoxy on the reel seat, ream the cork grip skew and the handle is lob-sided, put the eyes on and finish it off and then discover they are not in a straight line, screw up somewhere in the process and then have the (incredibly difficult) task of trying to remove the grip or the reel seat....
Graphite was a good choice...bamboo is like a science and serious art to build, plus you need very special tools for that. I've read four books on bamboo rod building now...and still too intimidated to try it.

I would advise you to get a kit...you can get a GREAT rod for around US$ 89.00 - US$ 140.00. Then they supply you the blank, reel seat, grip, guides, hookkeeper, tip top and one colour thread, all suited to that rod spec. Everything you need to build the rod. You just need 30 minute epoxy, thread finish, metallic thread for trim bands, alcohol, etc. These rods normally have very good actions, come with a limited lifetime warranty, and cast really well plus look great.

Then when you order all this, ALSO order a few books!!! MUST read and study before doing anything. I would suggest four books:
LA Garcia's rod building book (Some "Exclusive Books" stores here have thisd book)
Tom Kirkman's rod building book
Art Scheck's "Fly Rod Building made Easy" (a Must read)
Flex Coat's rod building book (cheapie, but informative)

In fact, get a few books if you can BEFORE even ordering the parts. Might change your mind on blank choice, guide choice, etc etc.

I built up many rods before deciding to build up the Sage Z-Axis rods. My first few rods each have a little flaw here and there...maybe no-one would have noticed, but I know it's there. And with each rod I have built so far, I learnt something new.

For rod-stands (to use while wrapping) you can use a cardboard box with two "V"'s cut out of each side, to rest the rod pieces in.
The thread spools can be put into cups and the thread run through a telephone directory, with books on top of that to provide thread tension.
All the books mentioned above will give you these kind of tips and tricks.

It's actually easy to build a rod...but you need to know what you are doing, that's why reading those books are so important. Once you know the basics, you can take your time and build the rod, and it WILL come out great, if you have done your research.

But seriously, get a few cheap blanks first, and build two or three rods, then if you still feel confident, and you are happy with your work, try the more expensive blanks. These days you have to look hard to get a CR@P blank...most of the cheaper ones are very good.

Go to this site for blanks, rod kits, books and all the other stuff you will need:
http://www.jsflyfishing.com
It's J. Stockard Flyfishing, and they have an enormous range of everything you will need, and the prices are good.
I can highly recommend their RAINSHADOW rod blanks and rod kits, the RX7 models. It's IM7 graphite, limited lifetime warranty, can special order an Emerald Green colour (good looks), moderate-fast action, and is really a great rod. And the price is awesome.

Oh, and yes the same gaurantees apply, BUT they will obviously only supply you with another blank...not a complete rod. So you will have to get new reel seats, grips, etc etc and build the rod again.

Good luck! Enjoy it...it becomes an addiction.

[ShaunF]

I'll throw a spanner in the works and say that as long as you are prepared to spend some time doing some reading and trolling a few forums asking questions, and are prepared to take the build slow and check and double check each step, then you should build the rod you want to end up with. If a Sage TXL is your dream rod, then build your dream rod. I don't see the point of buying 2 or 3 other rods you don't really want, when ultimately you still don't have the one you want.

One thing you need to understand though. Just because you're building it yourself, don't mean its going to end up being much cheaper than the factory built equivalent. If you choose the best quality components, you really won't save much at all, but what you do end up with is something unique that you can be proud of, and not some mass produced factory stick.

My first 2 rods were Sage XP's with the best quality components I could get my hands on. I'm not rich and couldn't really afford to duff it, and so was very aprehensive, but I found that this was actually motivated me into being very careful and critical of everything I did, and this has actually meant that I think I have become a better builder that what I would have been if I had bought several cheaper rods and done a sloppy job because I wasn't worried about wasting a lot of money if I duffed it. I find I work best under pressure !

Lets be honest here. Its not that easy to really stuff up a rod during the build. Most things can be undone. Also, its easy to get hold of old broken bits of rod, old guides etc which you can test certain techniques out on etc before you even touch your shiny new pride and joy. Ie: you don't actually have to learn on the rod itself.

Use the correct products for the jobs to ensure you have sufficient work time and don't try do too many things at the same time. ie - don't use 5 minute epoxy to mount the reel seat and grip - use an epoxy with a longer setup time, but the 5 minute stuff is great for assembling the reelseat beforehand.

Getting a bit of epoxy on the reelseat isn't the end of the world. It cleans off easy enough with a bit of alcohol and if you're careful and use masking tape on the shiny bits, this won't even be an issue. Its really not rocket science.

If you are not happy with a wrap you have just wrapped, just cut it off. I must have rewrapped some of my guides on my first Sage 3 or 4 times before I was happy.

Really the only thing you can make a mess with is the Flexcoat or whatever you end up using to coat the wraps. My advice to you is to get hold of an old section of rod and just make a few test wraps and play with the epoxy product so you become familiar with how it behaves. How long is the potlife? What happens if you agitate it too much? How do you get bubbles out? How do I apply it accurately ? Once you've got this down, its a piece of cake really, and learning this doesn't necessarily mean having to build a cheaper rod first !

Bite the bullet, get the TXL !

[Michael]

You CAN Stuff a rod up! I once was bursting the bubbles on the finish, that was right on the rubber winding check...never thought about it, but the next minute there was a black patch on the cork! The flame wasn't even on it...but it happened. Okay no problem...I used fine sandpaper and got it out, but changed the shape of the cork grip slightly. No-one would have noticed...but I know it was there.

My best advise is, like i said...read as much as you can first...learn all you think you should know, and then touch up your knowledge again. Then, by all means, commence. And yes, of course, no-one stops you from starting on an expensive blank...just be very careful, go very slowly, do not rush it...and take care of the details. Once you have done a step, double check it before the glue dries, etc. That's why I use Epidermix 372 epoxy...cures in 24 hours...so you have lots of time to clean off spots, smooth it, use alcohol to remove excess epoxy, move the components into position, etc.

It's easy to bump a rod while it's drying, or to touch finish on the wraps by mistake, or just misjudge the spacing of the guides, etc etc. Just take extra care and you will be fine. Patience is the key...but also some knowledge as well before starting.

[FishWhisperer]

Im in NO rush with this project and i always do my homework, but i think i do want to try and build one rod before i spend the big money on Sage. Ive been reading alot lately and there are so many things ive never thought of. There is nothing i hate more than imperfections. Also I want to try feather or insect interts on top of the reel seat, buy dont know if i realy want it on my 00#. I think ill try build a 4/5# for my girlfriend. Maybe she might even start fishing with me ..... cauld one get ahold of a pink blank!!?? What is the cheapest way of getting ahold of the bits and pieces or do you think buying a kit to start with is the way to go? If so Any quality, mid-priced kits i should look at? Also if its being ordered from overseas, is ther anyone out there placing orders an wanting to share delivery costs??
Thank you all very much for al your corespondance so far, it is definitly appreciated!!