Leader Adjustment for Dry/Dropper

[Uli@84]

Hi Guys,

Second and Final question for the day.

I have recently started experimenting with dry/dropper set-ups as I want to try this a bit on the rivers the coming season.

I have a few questions and was hoping to get some feedback.

So Far my leader setup fishing dries only has been as follow:

-12 Ft Tapered 5X Leader to which I attached 6 X tippet, total length was generally in the region of 14 - 15Ft, I have been able to turn over the leader well enough on a Med -Fast 8Ft Rod.

I then tied on a meter of about 6x tippet to the hook shank and attached small nymph.

I have however found that it seems like the set-up is not turning over well enough, and the flies tend to land a bit loud in the water. Fishing a Dry only on the above leader, I am able to land a dry accurately and very softly, but the nymph "collapses" the cast for want of a better word.

My next approach is where I am looking for some input:

1. I have considered shortening the leader from Fly Line to Dry Fly, would this transfer more energy into the cast and thus hopefully turn over the set-up better?
2. Should I mabye approach my casting differently, maybe focus on bigger loops?
3. Could the tippet length used from Dry to Nymph maybe be wrong?Too Long/Short, too thin/thick?
4. Should I maybe use smaller Flies, I used a Size 12 Para RAB and a small believe it was a size 16 nymph? Is there a size correlation that needs to be considered in fishing a dry/dropper?

Buying new tackle is not an option so I am simply looking at ways to improve my technique / approach.

Once again any info will be appreciated.
Thanks guys
Cheers

[Andre]

I might have some advice for you, but need to ask a couple of questions.
What weight rod are you using?
Have you ever tried to fish with the dry on the dropper? tying the tippet to nymph onto the hook shank isn't a dropper setup. A dropper is a length of mono tippet that "drops off" the mail leader line. Sounds like you are doing a straight tandem setup. Is this true?
Is the nymph weighted or unweighted, or do you experience the same problem with both?

[gkieser]

Hi Uli,

here are some thoughts of mine:

1. I have considered shortening the leader from Fly Line to Dry Fly, would this transfer more energy into the cast and thus hopefully turn over the set-up better?
- Yes this will help turning the flies over, but will increase the speed that the flies enter the water so might still be loud. Try aiming to a metre above the water. I know it sounds stupid, but might be that you are casting down onto the water which adds the noise. Aim higher and letting it float down might help
2. Should I mabye approach my casting differently, maybe focus on bigger loops?
- A belgian cast will help with multiple flies as the flies are never in the same plane. Backcast out sideways (maybe 45 degrees) then forward cast over your shoulder as normal.
3. Could the tippet length used from Dry to Nymph maybe be wrong?Too Long/Short, too thin/thick?
- Could be, but usually the length between then is set for the depth of the river, so a bit difficult to change as you will then be fishing too deep/shallow to what you want
4. Should I maybe use smaller Flies, I used a Size 12 Para RAB and a small believe it was a size 16 nymph? Is there a size correlation that needs to be considered in fishing a dry/dropper?
- i think those are fine. Shouldnt cause the problem from what i can see

[Uli@84]

Hi Andre,

Terminology wise, I might be describing the matter incorrectly, to put bluntly main goal is to use the dry as the indicator, so my thought train was dry needs to be directly attached to nymph. So ya I rig it strait as you say. I saw it on a website somewhere. Also saw two other alternatives which I still want to try.

I have tried to cast a true dropper set-up just resulted in tangles so F*** that for now.

I use a 3/4Wt with a 4 Line.

I might have some advice for you, but need to ask a couple of questions.
What weight rod are you using?
Have you ever tried to fish with the dry on the dropper? tying the tippet to nymph onto the hook shank isn't a dropper setup. A dropper is a length of mono tippet that "drops off" the mail leader line. Sounds like you are doing a straight tandem setup. Is this true?
Is the nymph weighted or unweighted, or do you experience the same problem with both?

[Uli@84]

Thanks Grant

Will try to play around with the ideas you mentioned, especially aiming higher, have never thought of that, would this not also resulted in more slack in you cast? My leader tends to straighten to much as I do tend to punch the cast a bit too hard and low.

Hi Uli,

here are some thoughts of mine:

1. I have considered shortening the leader from Fly Line to Dry Fly, would this transfer more energy into the cast and thus hopefully turn over the set-up better?
- Yes this will help turning the flies over, but will increase the speed that the flies enter the water so might still be loud. Try aiming to a metre above the water. I know it sounds stupid, but might be that you are casting down onto the water which adds the noise. Aim higher and letting it float down might help
2. Should I mabye approach my casting differently, maybe focus on bigger loops?
- A belgian cast will help with multiple flies as the flies are never in the same plane. Backcast out sideways (maybe 45 degrees) then forward cast over your shoulder as normal.
3. Could the tippet length used from Dry to Nymph maybe be wrong?Too Long/Short, too thin/thick?
- Could be, but usually the length between then is set for the depth of the river, so a bit difficult to change as you will then be fishing too deep/shallow to what you want
4. Should I maybe use smaller Flies, I used a Size 12 Para RAB and a small believe it was a size 16 nymph? Is there a size correlation that needs to be considered in fishing a dry/dropper?
- i think those are fine. Shouldnt cause the problem from what i can see

[gkieser]

Yes it should increase slack too so that would be a good thing.!

[Andre]

Ok, lets see if we can help.
Grant came with some good advice that you should try also. Firstly, I don't really like factory tapered leaders for my river fishing, but they do work, and should see you well if we can get it working for you.
If you have the main leader "interrupted" by a fly, in other words, the terminal section of the leader is attached to the fly, it can cause the energy from the cast, to be interrupted, in its transfer down the leader, and the longer the distance to the fly on point, the more pronounced this interruption will be. So let me suggest this for starters:-
Shorten your leader, or go for a 9ft leader . and add 3 feet of 6X tippet and tie on a nymph, to a total length of one and a half times the rod length, in other words, not more than 12 feet. Somewhere on the tippet section, anywhere really (try it abot 18 inches from the point) attach a dropper using a 3 turn waterman knot, with the long tag hanging in the direction of the point. Trim the dropper to about 6 or 8 inches, and attach the dry. The dry fly will now be "dropping" off the main leader line, and in the cast, the flow of energy required to turn the leader over, shouldn't be interrupted by a fly half way down.
As Grant has said, try and cast with a slightly more open loop.
I don't think a new rod will solve your problems, but bear in mind that a 15 foot leader on a fast action 8 foot rod might be too long for what you are trying to do.
Hope this helps for now. If you need more clarification on what I have said, please ask.

Hi Andre,

Terminology wise, I might be describing the matter incorrectly, to put bluntly main goal is to use the dry as the indicator, so my thought train was dry needs to be directly attached to nymph. So ya I rig it strait as you say. I saw it on a website somewhere. Also saw two other alternatives which I still want to try.

I have tried to cast a true dropper set-up just resulted in tangles so F*** that for now.

I use a 3/4Wt with a 4 Line.

[Andre]

Its a good technique to get you started, but isn't great for fishing into the wind, but yes, the slack is good in allowing the fly to drift naturally, for a few seconds at least until the current drags it.

Yes it should increase slack too so that would be a good thing.!

[Uli@84]

Thank you Andre,

The information is much appreciated. I will try to apply it when next I get to practice a bit.

The 15 Foot Leader like mentioned worked on a dry only. Went on a guided trip with Tim Rolston in January, was my first Fly Fishing trip, the rod he gave me had a very long leader and we fished dries only. When I went back on my own, I had focussed and practiced a lot on casting with the long leader and using a single fly onlyas we did in Jan and it actually worked quite well. So I guess I was indoctrinated a bit

But since then as I read up I have been exploring a bit more down my own avenues.

Once again thanks for the Info guys.
Hopefully one day I can provide a bit of my own feedback for a neophyte.

Cheers

[Andre]

No problem. Also remember that Tim is an expert caster, and he loves the long leader option. It doesn't work for everyone.

Thank you Andre,

The information is much appreciated. I will try to apply it when next I get to practice a bit.

The 15 Foot Leader like mentioned worked on a dry only. Went on a guided trip with Tim Rolston in January, was my first Fly Fishing trip, the rod he gave me had a very long leader and we fished dries only. When I went back on my own, I had focussed and practiced a lot on casting with the long leader and using a single fly onlyas we did in Jan and it actually worked quite well. So I guess I was indoctrinated a bit

But since then as I read up I have been exploring a bit more down my own avenues.

Once again thanks for the Info guys.
Hopefully one day I can provide a bit of my own feedback for a neophyte.

Cheers