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Thread: Catch and release principals

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Cox View Post
    Hey Andre

    I am not suprised that you have been using circles in the Caribbean for ages (you were a guide right??)- from what I can gather, they are really highly rated overseas. What you also said above is very true- you are guaranteed of a hook-up in the scissors every time. That is the true beauty of a circle.

    But maybe you guys can enlighten me- because using a circle hook for carp and yellows just right plain avoids me. Circles were designed to slide through a fish's mouth and hook in the scissors, thus allowing bait fisherman, for example, to leave a fish to eat a bait for longer (thus ensuring that the bait and hook is in the mouth) without worrying about a deep throat/ gill hook-up.

    My problem comes in here- both carp and yellows do not have very well defined scissors (like say a baracuda or a wahoo or an elf for that matter). In fact, their mouth profiles are rather round. So, although I can understand guys using circles because they get snagged less, I cannot understand why they would be as effective for the 2 abovementioned species?

    Or am I just missing the plot?
    Kev

    Unfortunately, or fortunately some might say, I wasn't working as a guide, therefore I got to fish a hell of a lot more myself actually!! I was only working a few hours a day, and a couple days a week so had a lot of spare time to fish...tough life I know, but some one had to do it!!

    To the circle hooks.... I have found them to be effective on almost all fish I have used them on, with a little adjustment to techniques as is to be expected.

    The whole trick with circles is the fact that you don't strike to set the hook. If you strike, its game over.
    With certain species such as Tarpon, Jacks ( kingies ) Barracuda, Tuna etc, where the fish were aggresively taking a bait or lure or fly, all you really need to do is drop your rod tip towards the fish and let them take line until it comes tight and you either just start reeling to take up the slack, or the fish, depending on the size, will start taking line. This will cause the hook to slide up into the corner of the fish's mouth and give you that nice solid hook up in the lips or scissors.

    With fish like bonefish and others which aren't feeding as aggressively, and maybe this is the way forward with fish like Carp and Yellows, a gently lifting of the rod is required to drag the hook into the corner of the mouth as the fish turns away.....basically a very slow and smooth strike. The actual setting of the hook is done by the fish itself as it swims away from you. Circles actually work better in these fish's mouths as there is little to prevent the hook from finding an "edge" so to speak, whether that be the top or bpottom lip, or the actual scissors. Fish like shad and wahoo, with their fast snapping tooth lined jaws are actually pretty tough to get a circle to find purchase in.

    Another point regarding circles, and maybe this applies more to us "bait skates" which I learnt only long after starting with them is that when fishing live baits with Circles, or dead baits for that matter, you can start setting the hooks much earlier than old conventional methods. Back in the day when using trebles or reguklar J Hooks with Live biats, you'd always give the whole " Let him swim with it, let him stop, swallow it, then start swimming again, then set the hook" This of course ends up in gut hooking 100% of the time, as well as resluts in alot of dropped fish becuase so many fish drop the bait between picking it up, and swallowing it, any "Biat Skates" will attest to that. ( Chris, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about?!? )

    With A circle hook, as soon as the fish has the bait in its mouth, you can go about setting the hook. Instead of counting 20 seconds before setting the hook as with J Hooks, you count 3 seconds then just point your rod at the fish, and start reeling or just let him take up the slack till the line comes tight, or he is taking string, then you can raise your rod to fighting position, and away you go. ZERO chance of a gut or gill hooking!

    Kev I hope this helps in some way....I'm actual;ly not sure if I answered your question at all, I just kinda waffled on about circles..... Let me know and I'll try again!

    Chris, you might wanna test drive some circles on your next Henties trip.... they should work perfectly on those big Steenbras!
    I'll come ghillie for you and show you how they work if you want! I'll even bring sandwiches!!!
    *** TO RIDE, SHOOT STRAIGHT AND SPEAK THE TRUTH ***

    Some people are like Slinkies.... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

    The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. - Hunter S. Thompson

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nepptune View Post

    Chris, you might wanna test drive some circles on your next Henties trip.... they should work perfectly on those big Steenbras!
    I'll come ghillie for you and show you how they work if you want! I'll even bring sandwiches!!!
    I'll take you up on that Andre. I'm all for giving it a bash. Thanks so much for your informative contribution here. You certainly have taught me a thing or two!
    Last edited by Chris Shelton; 31-10-06 at 11:16 AM.
    "Innocence is a wild trout. But we humans, being complicated, have to pursue innocence in complex ways" - Datus Proper

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nepptune View Post
    Kev

    Unfortunately, or fortunately some might say, I wasn't working as a guide, therefore I got to fish a hell of a lot more myself actually!! I was only working a few hours a day, and a couple days a week so had a lot of spare time to fish...tough life I know, but some one had to do it!!

    To the circle hooks.... I have found them to be effective on almost all fish I have used them on, with a little adjustment to techniques as is to be expected.

    The whole trick with circles is the fact that you don't strike to set the hook. If you strike, its game over.
    With certain species such as Tarpon, Jacks ( kingies ) Barracuda, Tuna etc, where the fish were aggresively taking a bait or lure or fly, all you really need to do is drop your rod tip towards the fish and let them take line until it comes tight and you either just start reeling to take up the slack, or the fish, depending on the size, will start taking line. This will cause the hook to slide up into the corner of the fish's mouth and give you that nice solid hook up in the lips or scissors.

    With fish like bonefish and others which aren't feeding as aggressively, and maybe this is the way forward with fish like Carp and Yellows, a gently lifting of the rod is required to drag the hook into the corner of the mouth as the fish turns away.....basically a very slow and smooth strike. The actual setting of the hook is done by the fish itself as it swims away from you. Circles actually work better in these fish's mouths as there is little to prevent the hook from finding an "edge" so to speak, whether that be the top or bpottom lip, or the actual scissors. Fish like shad and wahoo, with their fast snapping tooth lined jaws are actually pretty tough to get a circle to find purchase in.

    Another point regarding circles, and maybe this applies more to us "bait skates" which I learnt only long after starting with them is that when fishing live baits with Circles, or dead baits for that matter, you can start setting the hooks much earlier than old conventional methods. Back in the day when using trebles or reguklar J Hooks with Live biats, you'd always give the whole " Let him swim with it, let him stop, swallow it, then start swimming again, then set the hook" This of course ends up in gut hooking 100% of the time, as well as resluts in alot of dropped fish becuase so many fish drop the bait between picking it up, and swallowing it, any "Biat Skates" will attest to that. ( Chris, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about?!? )

    With A circle hook, as soon as the fish has the bait in its mouth, you can go about setting the hook. Instead of counting 20 seconds before setting the hook as with J Hooks, you count 3 seconds then just point your rod at the fish, and start reeling or just let him take up the slack till the line comes tight, or he is taking string, then you can raise your rod to fighting position, and away you go. ZERO chance of a gut or gill hooking!

    Kev I hope this helps in some way....I'm actual;ly not sure if I answered your question at all, I just kinda waffled on about circles..... Let me know and I'll try again!

    Chris, you might wanna test drive some circles on your next Henties trip.... they should work perfectly on those big Steenbras!
    I'll come ghillie for you and show you how they work if you want! I'll even bring sandwiches!!!
    Andre bud- you explained it perfectly- how wrong was I? ha ha ha- i'll swallow my pride and admit that I was obviously running against the traffic with my thoughts!

    Shot for the reply- I'll tie up some caddis patterns on circles for the Orange (cant wait- next week we leave!) and let you know how I found them.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Cox View Post
    Andre bud- you explained it perfectly- how wrong was I? ha ha ha- i'll swallow my pride and admit that I was obviously running against the traffic with my thoughts!

    Shot for the reply- I'll tie up some caddis patterns on circles for the Orange (cant wait- next week we leave!) and let you know how I found them.
    Lucky bugger!
    "Innocence is a wild trout. But we humans, being complicated, have to pursue innocence in complex ways" - Datus Proper

  5. #35
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    Thanks Nep, that make a lot of sence, shall save your post in my little book of fishing info.

    Thanks, thats what this forum is about.
    To paint lines on a silver stretch of stream, is to be humbled by nature and to be closer to thy maker.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyno View Post
    Thanks Nep, that make a lot of sence, shall save your post in my little book of fishing info.

    Thanks, thats what this forum is about.
    I couldn't agree more with you Dyno
    "Innocence is a wild trout. But we humans, being complicated, have to pursue innocence in complex ways" - Datus Proper

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