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Thread: Sage X

  1. #11
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    I agree with some of the stuff that Zoran says...note some of it, not all. But anyway, it has to be said, that a lot of Jerry Siem's rationale regarding some of his rod designs, has gone largely misunderstood here is South Africa. Not sure why this is, but if you look at some of the best designs he produced, have simply not taken off here. Its not because we don't have applications for them, but I think that our fishing has become stuck in a quest for casting prowess, and not fishing prowess.
    Last edited by Andre; 24-06-16 at 01:03 PM.
    Disclaimer.... none of my posts are intended to be "expert advice"..just opinions from someone who is willing to help where he can.

  2. #12
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    Without any doubt , Jerry Siem is probably one of the greatest rod designer of all the time, if not the greatest one.
    All together with Bruce Richards , Fly Line designer , they established modern Fly Casting /Fishing with their rods and lines.

    Many of us grew up with Sage rods , and these carbon sticks are second to none by all means .
    But, he must pay his bills as anyone else ,so I understand that dark (and hopefully short) period of making a few wet broomsticks models

    I still think (in #5 class) that Sage XP is the greatest ever produced rod (industrial, mass production, not small series, hand made designed rods) .
    He never managed to make decent replacement of XP , since market went to wet broomstick direction at the time after XP cancellation .

    Judging only by description, I hope X is that long awaited XP replacement , proper replacement .
    Of course this is only speculation ,for the purpose of carrying on this nice discussion with the Gentlemen on this Board , only once we cast the X , we will know.

    Another very important thing in the Sage X advert is that statement about "water casts ".
    That was a reason for my first post written on that way

    Why anyone need to say - this rod is suitable for water casts ?
    Any fly rod must be suitable for water casts (say simple Roll Cast on the first place, not to mention huge variety of Single Hand Spey casts )
    Any proper rod must be good enough ( to be loaded enough) for easy execution of Roll Cast with 5-12 meters of line outside rod tip , depending of skills .
    So why suddenly , Sage X become a rod suitable for water casts , having that statement in its advert ?

    Because some of the previous models were just useless for any Roll (Spey) Cast, that's why .
    5 -10 m of line is just not enough to load such a kind of stiff rods , and Rolls and Speys are impossible without pain and unnecessary effort.

    If I cannot do a nice Roll with 5-6 meters of line outside rod tip , that is not rod for me , period.

    Just take a look in a ,probably the best ever #6 carbon rod made- Sexyloops Hot Torpedo .
    Designed by Paul Arden , one of the best fly casters ever , and big lover and specialist in the Single Spey Hand Casting.

    One can do the Roll with just few meters of line , and then to carry 22 (or full 28 meters as Paul do) meters of the line in the air and then to shoot that damn fly over 30- 40 meters of distance .

    Wet broomstick can do only second part , to throw the line beyond the horizon , but they are useless for close Roll /Speys, fine presentation ...

    Soft , slow rods can do only the first part , nice Rolls and Speys , but with limited distance.
    They are useless if you need to present that small CDC fly 27-30 meters in the wind on arising Yellow on Sterkies .

    Knowing it very well, Jerry obviously get back to his roots and designed the rod which can do both things with easy , canceling the need to carry two rods ,one for distance , one for the water casts and fine presentation.

    Sage management probably didn't immune and blind in regards of amazing penetration in rod market by the New Kid in the block (Epic Fly Rods by Swift Fly Fishing ).
    Epic philosophy is very simple - full progressive flex , cast and present close and distance with easy ,great pleasure during casting and AMAZING , UNBELIEVABLE fast recovery for glass rod , equal to many carbon rods with big names on the handle.
    (an example - the leader lenght on each and everyone of my 4 Epic rods are about 10-20 % LONGER than leaders on my premium acrbon Sage and other rods .
    Why ? Because of some weird reason , my Epic Glass rods are easier and more effective on leader turnover than carbon rods !!!??? )
    And remember , Epic rods are also designed by one of the finest caster /fly casting teacher on the World .
    That's why they are so successful , threatening to become a very, very serious player in this game .

    So , that's why I understand Sage X design like Sage management apologize to (temporarily ) abandoned part of the market .
    Also X could be comeback to the fly casting fly fishing roots .
    In my World , these roots are : " Hey you, Fly Rod ! Present that bloody fly on 5 and 30 meters with easy and pleasure ,or I gonna sell you right now ! "
    And finally , X could be the answer on never answered simple question : how the proper fly rod should looks like ?
    Last edited by Zoran; 24-06-16 at 11:39 AM.

  3. #13
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    Zoran, interesting to me how you slag off the "fast broomstick rods", and then sing the praises of the XP. In my opinion, the XP falls squarely in the middle of the fast broomstick category.
    Disclaimer.... none of my posts are intended to be "expert advice"..just opinions from someone who is willing to help where he can.

  4. #14
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    Yes Andre , I see what you mean , and you are probably right .
    But I still do not understand XP as a "wet broomstick " since it have a very sensitive and alive tip , somehow "soft but crisp " tip .
    That "aliveness " is going progressively down somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of of the rod , and than it becomes stiffer and stiffer , finishing with pretty much stiff butt .
    Roll and Spey casts are breeze , and rod is loading quite good with short line.
    If you compare it with the first "wet broomstick " designed from Sage - TCR #5 , XP is an alive , fast sensitive animal.
    According to Dr Bill Hanneman CCS system , TCR#5 should be labeled as #7 .
    But when you put that #7 line, it becomes slow and sluggish , exactly like a wet broomstick , and that is where that nick name come from
    That rod id designed only for distance casting with #5 line , able to carry lots of line in the air and only then to start loading.

    All in all XP is fast glass full of soul when you compare it with #TCR 5

    When XP canceling and replacement with Zaxis was announced , we were in great expectation to see an advanced XP , still so fast , but with a little more deeper action .
    Unfortunately , Z axis was some another league ,but not XP successor at all (nothing wrong with Zaxis ).

    Now lets hope X will be that new XP .
    Last edited by Zoran; 24-06-16 at 02:35 PM.

  5. #15
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    Im not sure what you mean by "wet broomstick" but anyway. Im wondering if we are speaking about he same XP. I do agree with part of you explanation about the loading, as it does have a progressive taper. Your description of the tip could not be further from the truth. To me the XP was a great rod except for the tip, which I found to be cumbersome, dead and very insensitive, which spoiled the rod.. In fact if it wasnt for the absolutely horrible tip, it would have made quite a nice rod... This of course is my opinion based on my own experience, and i expect some resistance.
    Disclaimer.... none of my posts are intended to be "expert advice"..just opinions from someone who is willing to help where he can.

  6. #16
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    I know. Lots of people cannot make XP to work , complaining about dead tip and stiff but , and then saying tip is wobbling .
    (which can be seen in the bottom leg of the loop , waves and waves ...but then another people can make straight , like ironed, sharply pointed 2 inch loops with the same rod , no waves ..)
    In my case I feel exactly as i described in previous post .

    Anyway ,the other side of equation is which line is on XP ?
    If you put that a very popular GPX , 1/2 heavier than #5 AFTMA , with short head , XP will lost the crispness and aliveness a bit .
    Put in an old XXD ( SA Mastery Distance today ) and you will have one of the best rod/line match ever.
    With that line XP becomes a beast, and maybe there is a reason it looks like I am talking about another rod.
    Anyway , its weekend time !

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoran View Post
    I know. Lots of people cannot make XP to work , complaining about dead tip and stiff but , and then saying tip is wobbling .
    (which can be seen in the bottom leg of the loop , waves and waves ...but then another people can make straight , like ironed, sharply pointed 2 inch loops with the same rod , no waves ..)
    In my case I feel exactly as i described in previous post .

    Anyway ,the other side of equation is which line is on XP ?
    If you put that a very popular GPX , 1/2 heavier than #5 AFTMA , with short head , XP will lost the crispness and aliveness a bit .
    Put in an old XXD ( SA Mastery Distance today ) and you will have one of the best rod/line match ever.
    With that line XP becomes a beast, and maybe there is a reason it looks like I am talking about another rod.
    Anyway , its weekend time !
    I think that you are talking about the casting. I have no problem with how the rod casts, it cast as well as any other rod.
    Disclaimer.... none of my posts are intended to be "expert advice"..just opinions from someone who is willing to help where he can.

  8. #18
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    I absolutely love my #5 XP you so kindly sold to me Zoran.... beautiful casting tool, and fishes superbly as well... I fish a #6 SA Sharkskin or something or other on it..

    But as you know I'm a Epic fan as well, and find myself reaching for the Epics more often than anything else these days, unless the wind is really shunting... this is probably because my casting technique is nowhere near as good as it could be, so I certainly find the faster rods like the XP more effective in heavy winds..

    But close to medium range fishing with an emphasis on accuracy and presentation, the Epic cannot be beaten for me and my current rod quiver...

    I'm sure the Sage X will be an amazing rod... they certainly know what they are doing when it comes to rod design, and marketing... and good on them for it...
    *** TO RIDE, SHOOT STRAIGHT AND SPEAK THE TRUTH ***

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  9. #19
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    I am glad you like #5 XP Andre ...
    I still have another two XP's ...3 weight 9 foot and 4 weight 8 foot .
    A little beast this short one is ....creates the fastest and tightest loops ever ....ideal for a windy conditions in tight corners ...

    ... yes it is not easy to explain ...once you cast and catch a fish with an Epic fast glass rod ,that's it ...other rods start to collect the dust
    Last edited by Zoran; 27-06-16 at 03:47 PM.

  10. #20
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    https://youtu.be/rgIc-5ErMWc

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