Long rods, short rods, crisp rods, slow rods etc and your style of fishing.

[Korrie]

Ok so let me sum it up.

Korrie I understand that it's not the rod and I must focus on what my indicator is telling me.
and a 6wt Infinity or other will be better to pull larger fish.

Dollar I can't fathom fishing for SM yellows with that diameter tippet. To me anything under 2.7kg is going to break. You simply can't put enough pressure on a 2.5kg yellow in the current without popping the tippet. You talking very thin stuff here and I'm not comfortable using that diameter without leaving plenty hooks in fish and I'm just not comfortable with that. Maybe with time but or now I just can't see how.

Andre when I say under gunned it refers to fighting 2kg - 3kg SM and Muddies in the current. A 5WT seems a little lite to put pressure on these fish and landing is probably the critical part that the extra WT up will help, and the occasional 3kg+ is really going to give you a hard time.
I also like to try my luck with Carp if I see them crazing around so the 5WT is definetly not suitable there either.
I also like to bring the fish in as quickly as possible hence the 6wt and thicker diameter line.

Benzo you make a valid point. I have started trying hand to leader nymphing as it's far more sensitive and I guess that jump has improved my bite detection 100 fold more that a faster rod would.

So If I further summarise, a faster rod seems to be the last of the other 100 little improvements you must focus on first.

Still think a 6wt 10ft might be a better overall rod for the application. (Being SM, Muddies and Carp)

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

Fairly well summed up, but there are certain points that I do differ on.
2,7kg and less will break??
The odd time on the take you will pop a fly, but the more you fish with thin diameter line, the more confidence you will have.
I used to do nymph the Cape Streams with 5x.
Not it is standard to start with 8x.
I seldom drop down to 7x, Maybe in really high fast water I will go down to 5x.
A 2,5kg fish cannot exert more kilograms than what it weighs. With the current maybe.
If you play the fish a little diferrent, you will be surprised on what can be done.
What is worse, playing a 3kg muddy on a #5 and not have enough pulling power or have #6 and you can pull the tippet to almost breaking strain?
But having said that, I have had lots of fun on #3 rod and 6x tippet in the lower Orange and snapped off less than fishing my #6 and pulling harder.

[dollar]

Grant111 i played alot with rod and line before i settle on my ideal set up, for the vaal the lowest rod weight is a 3 10ft, in this case it's streamflex with stroft gtm line.
the rod has a soft tip, a moderate mid section to a stiffer butt. it absorbs every trick the yellows got during a fight unless the line has wedge itself between rocks. my go to line dia is 0.14 (2,3kg) and 0.15 (2,6kg). comparing to say maxima ultragreen, 2,7kg comes in 0.22 dia. this alone is a drastic advantage when it comes to drift speed. however i do admit that i have been busted before, mostly found its normaly knot failure from the dropper and from serious rock rash. there are days i have lost 4 or 5 flies then there days not a single fly, regurlar checks also helps. although the line stroft is best in my books for the vaal, the rod does everything for me in the bite detection and subdues big fish.

[Korrie]

Grant111 i played alot with rod and line before i settle on my ideal set up, for the vaal the lowest rod weight is a 3 10ft, in this case it's streamflex with stroft gtm line.
the rod has a soft tip, a moderate mid section to a stiffer butt. it absorbs every trick the yellows got during a fight unless the line has wedge itself between rocks. my go to line dia is 0.14 (2,3kg) and 0.15 (2,6kg). comparing to say maxima ultragreen, 2,7kg comes in 0.22 dia. this alone is a drastic advantage when it comes to drift speed. however i do admit that i have been busted before, mostly found its normaly knot failure from the dropper and from serious rock rash. there are days i have lost 4 or 5 flies then there days not a single fly, regurlar checks also helps. although the line stroft is best in my books for the vaal, the rod does everything for me in the bite detection and subdues big fish.

Well said, a soft rod, does protect a thin tippet.

This brings it back to the title of the thread.
"..... your style of fishing"
You have to decide which way you want to fish on a particular day.
Very light rods and thin tippets and "play" the fish a bit more or bigger rod and thicker tippet to "pull" the fish out with as little fuss as possible.
You can also fish the thin tippet on bigger rod, it takes more practice/skill and patience.

[Korrie]

Grant111 i played alot with rod and line before i settle on my ideal set up, for the vaal the lowest rod weight is a 3 10ft, in this case it's streamflex with stroft gtm line.
the rod has a soft tip, a moderate mid section to a stiffer butt. it absorbs every trick the yellows got during a fight unless the line has wedge itself between rocks. my go to line dia is 0.14 (2,3kg) and 0.15 (2,6kg). comparing to say maxima ultragreen, 2,7kg comes in 0.22 dia. this alone is a drastic advantage when it comes to drift speed. however i do admit that i have been busted before, mostly found its normaly knot failure from the dropper and from serious rock rash. there are days i have lost 4 or 5 flies then there days not a single fly, regurlar checks also helps. although the line stroft is best in my books for the vaal, the rod does everything for me in the bite detection and subdues big fish.

This also brings it back to another post on the thread, "making the rod do the work for you"

[yella]

My take on this is completely different - because Im no fan of leader to hand nymphing. Yes you catch lots of fish but it gets boring as you catch way too many small fish too. In fact I dont do any euro/shorline nymphing anymore and havent done so in a while. (OK Im lying a bit as I take new guys to the rapids if its their first few times)

My ideal smallmouth rod is a medium action (soft in todays terms) 5wt 9ft rod. I dont fish the rapids for smallmouth anymore because I find the big fish around structure above and below the rapids, or around structure in pools. When nymphing I cast relatively long lines with an indicator (or dry dropper setup) to the structure or many times without an indicator if the current is such that you can maintain contact.

Tippet protection is a big thing - we fish 5x tippet for dries and land smallmouths in the region of 3.5kg that way, though you do need patience.

To convince you its more fun than euronymphing, Ive gone out nearly every week in the winter and caught smallmouths. From mid april to mid september I have the river to myself and its some of the best fishing of the year, especially may up to mid june.

[Circus]

2,7kg and less will break??

I remember at one of Korrie's masterclass thingy's, I landed a vaal yellow of about 1kg using 7x. One thing that appears to be missing from the discussion is the added shock absorption of a boiled leader.

And I agree with Dollar's view that maxima is well short of offering the best strength/diameter combo.

Finally, if you fish barbless, who cares if you lose the occasional fish to a snap off, the hook should fall out quickly. It is only by going beyond the limit that you learn where the limit is in terms of how much pressure you can actually apply.

[Andre]

yes Grant111, fast action rod is more sensitive than slow rod.

Sorry I have to dissagree. Its not the rod that picks up the takes, its the anglers skill in detecting them. A fast rod, slow rod, stiff rod, floppy rod, will give you about 2% assistance either way, depending on how good you are at fishing your rod. The action of the rod, fast or slow, has actiually very little to do with sensitivity, because most of the sensitivity is experienced through the line and your hand. Before you rush out and buy a fast rod for vaal nymphing, try and perfect the technique of maintaining contact with the fly.
For what its worth, my personal experience, is that I prefer the medium to slower rods, but thats not because of sensitivity, they just cast better for my kind of nymphing. The sensitivity as a function of technique, can be worked on.

[BenzoV]

I prefer the medium to slower rods

Andre I saw this picture last night and immediately wondered if this is what you mean by the action of the ESN. Softer mid-section, stiff tip, right?

[BenzoV]

If you play the fish a little diferrent

Grant this is how you should play a fish with 6x on the Vaal

[dollar]

Andre i agree with your post, actually i only rely alot more on the line to help catch fish (feel and vision), furthermore i fight the fish by hand and use the reel for line management hence my favourite reel is a click and pawl (large arbor) mainly fresh water fishing.
my answer to Grant111's question was based on his requirement from and engineering point and short line nymphing. short line meaning that any takes on the line is more sensitive than having a take from a long distance away so i only took this as a consideration. answered mainly on the rod on its own, if i'm wrong here then i take it all back, assuming/guessing the rod was of graphite because of previous name brand mentioned and adding fast action into the mix and therefore the fast recovery rate of such rod i answered yes. also my judgement had influence from the bassing rods where the line isnt held, something i do often (bassing)