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Thread: Micro flies, and who fishes them?

  1. #1
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    Default Micro flies, and who fishes them?

    How many of the forumers tie and fish patterns of size 20 and smaller?
    If not, any reason?
    Not enough belief in the small patterns?
    Afraid the hook will open?
    Or any other reasons?
    For those that do fish the patterns smaller than #20, do you use nymphs and dries?
    How many fish have you caught on the small patterns and size of the fish?
    Korrie Broos

    Don't go knocking on Death's door, ring the bell and run like hell. He hates it. (anon)
    Nymphing, adds depth to your fly fishing.
    Nymphing, is fly fishing in another dimension

  2. #2
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    Yeah - I do mate, on occasion.

    Not exactly something I choose to fish, but something that is a necessary evil at times.
    Tying those little flies is one thing, but getting them on a tippet stream side is something else.
    Even with reading glasses on, that fly is small!

    There is definitely the issue with opened hooks on some of the dry flies and fine gauge wire, but most of my really small flies are nymphs and buzzers.

    These days though, my cut off size would most probably be size #22
    Most of my normal trouting for sighted fish is between #16-18 nymphs in any case, but that is NZ South Island.
    The heavier nymph hooks are superb and I haven't had any drama's with these - the fine gauge wire on the dry flies is another matter altogether. I've adopted the same hooks now for the dries as for the nymphs, but it's not perfect!
    Extra wraps are needed for the parachute to keep it buoyant.

    It's a world of difference on the North Island where much bigger flies are the norm.

    I'll come back to this post and add some photo's.

    Edit: Photo's attached

    IMG_3865 (Small).jpgIMG_3867 (Small).jpgIMG_3877 (Small).jpgIMG_3879 (Small).jpg
    Last edited by Kevin James; 14-08-17 at 08:21 AM. Reason: Add photo's

  3. #3
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    One of my largest stillwater trout was caught on a size 20 glass bead Frenchie. In some cases I like to tie smaller flies Size 20/22 on a larger hook size 18/16
    Last edited by PieterS; 14-08-17 at 11:12 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin James View Post
    Yeah - I do mate, on occasion.

    Not exactly something I choose to fish, but something that is a necessary evil at times.
    Tying those little flies is one thing, but getting them on a tippet stream side is something else.
    Even with reading glasses on, that fly is small!

    There is definitely the issue with opened hooks on some of the dry flies and fine gauge wire, but most of my really small flies are nymphs and buzzers.

    These days though, my cut off size would most probably be size #22
    Most of my normal trouting for sighted fish is between #16-18 nymphs in any case, but that is NZ South Island.
    The heavier nymph hooks are superb and I haven't had any drama's with these - the fine gauge wire on the dry flies is another matter altogether. I've adopted the same hooks now for the dries as for the nymphs, but it's not perfect!
    Extra wraps are needed for the parachute to keep it buoyant.

    It's a world of difference on the North Island where much bigger flies are the norm.

    I'll come back to this post and add some photo's.

    Edit: Photo's attached

    IMG_3865 (Small).jpgIMG_3867 (Small).jpgIMG_3877 (Small).jpgIMG_3879 (Small).jpg
    Is one of the "problems" with the small hooks is that we are "fighting the fish to "hard"?
    Because we do not want to stress the fish, we end up Hoisting the fish back, in stead of skillfully playing the fish back?
    Korrie Broos

    Don't go knocking on Death's door, ring the bell and run like hell. He hates it. (anon)
    Nymphing, adds depth to your fly fishing.
    Nymphing, is fly fishing in another dimension

  5. #5
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    In the early 1980's, I persuaded Jack Blackman, who was working at King's Sports in Durban to order boxes of no.20, 22 and 24 straight eyed Vince Marinaro hooks that Partridge were making at the time, for me to experiment with. I still have a couple of these hooks tucked away among a couple of thousand hooks. Anyway, I tied a couple of Mayfly nymphs (brown, olive and black) and fished them on my recently aquired 9foot 3wt Scott and headed off to Highmoor that weekend and caught fish. Actually anglers slowly encroached on me to the extent that I stopped fishing. Sitting next to the dam, one of the anglers came over and asked what fly I was using so offered him my rod to have a look. "Where is the fly?" he asked and I had to point out the no.22 Brown Nymph hooked onto the keeper ring. He did not believe that such a small fly could catch fish and he called his mates over so he could have a good laugh at their expense. Those were the days - no indicators, just fishing dead drift and gently lifting the rod when the tip of your fly line went down. Strikes were missed and looked for alternatives and settled on short shank no. 18 hooks as the fly tied on short shank was the same size as the smaller Marinaro hooks. In those days we did not have much choice and made do with what we could find.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korrie View Post
    Is one of the "problems" with the small hooks is that we are "fighting the fish to "hard"?
    Because we do not want to stress the fish, we end up Hoisting the fish back, in stead of skillfully playing the fish back?
    I'm not sure Korrie, but there are limitations on some of the hooks.
    I'm sure this could well be a factor if you fish like a maniac and skull drag the thing in, but most blokes I tend to fish with have a inkling of common sense and avoid this sort of carry on.

    From personal experience, I have no qualms whatsoever going hard to turn a fish on a TMC2488H hook in very small sizes. These hooks are extra heavy and will not open within reason.
    The poorer cousin of this hook is the TMC2488 without the H denotation.

    Great hooks in my humble opinion and ones I will not change.

    Actually, here is a good experiment for you to try (or anyone interested for that matter) so you can actually gauge and measure what pressure you can actually exert without bending a hook out.
    Put your hook into a block of wood in a vice and attach mono like you would normally.
    Get a set of accurate micro scales that measure in the lowest denominations and start a slow pull to get the bend out on the hook. Don't pull the hook upwards, but rather at the angle you would normally fight a fish.
    *An interesting observation here is sometimes the hooks bend out and spring back to shape and you think the fish has just fallen off*

    It's not the most brilliantly accurate testing method, but it does at least give you an indication and perhaps a guideline as to what the pressure can be for each hook (or through a range) so you do not have to worry about fighting the fish too hard or my pet hate, too softly.
    I try to fish my tackle to the limit - it's no good fishing a 4lb tippet and using a 1/2 pound of the breaking strain to try turn a fish tearing away to the snags or hooking a tuna on 16lb tippet and fighting it with 4lbs.
    It goes even more so for the salt water setup where every bit of fishing to the limit applies.
    Hoisting a fish up as you say isn't going to work, but try differing angles and you'll be amazed at what you will achieve.
    Sitting on top of a fish and fishing straight up and down is useless - speak to any game fisherman with a few seasons under his belt that has done the hard yards on big fish. The same concept applies here to angles and using them.

    Try a range of hooks for your experiment -
    I've pretty much settled on TMC's and a couple of other brands in particular sizing - but that's my findings.
    Your results may well vary.

    @white death - I've used those Marinaro hooks too.
    Come to think of it, I may well too have a few boxes stashed away - thanks for posting - reminded me to go have a look.

  7. #7
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    Yes, I agree with you, some hooks are easier to open than others due to the gauge of the wire.

    I read an article about the "Goldilocks" size (that is not the fly,, but a term that is used for not too big, not too small, just right) in Tenkara, which is considered about a #12.
    I would say that #12 is a bit big for most of the Cape streams. And the fun of a tying small flies and fishing them makes for fun times on the river.
    Pascal Cognard showed me the value of micro flies, and catching spooked fish. He has an array of flies smaller than #20, mostly nymphs.
    It is also important to match the size of the fly to the right tippet.
    No use fishing a #24 on a 3x tippet.
    Korrie Broos

    Don't go knocking on Death's door, ring the bell and run like hell. He hates it. (anon)
    Nymphing, adds depth to your fly fishing.
    Nymphing, is fly fishing in another dimension

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korrie View Post
    Yes, I agree with you, some hooks are easier to open than others due to the gauge of the wire.

    I read an article about the "Goldilocks" size (that is not the fly,, but a term that is used for not too big, not too small, just right) in Tenkara, which is considered about a #12.
    I would say that #12 is a bit big for most of the Cape streams. And the fun of a tying small flies and fishing them makes for fun times on the river.
    Pascal Cognard showed me the value of micro flies, and catching spooked fish. He has an array of flies smaller than #20, mostly nymphs.
    It is also important to match the size of the fly to the right tippet.
    No use fishing a #24 on a 3x tippet.
    Do not forget the right weight rod as well, do not fish a #24 PTN with a #8 rod. Not the best scenario.
    Korrie Broos

    Don't go knocking on Death's door, ring the bell and run like hell. He hates it. (anon)
    Nymphing, adds depth to your fly fishing.
    Nymphing, is fly fishing in another dimension

  9. #9
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    I would love to get my hands on some small nymph hooks but all the shops in my area (closest being over an hours drive away) do not stock anything smaller than 16 if you're lucky, with 14 being the smallest in most cases, even for dry fly hooks. Short of ordering online there is other no option for me.

    But judging from the nymphs in the streams 18 and 20 are often the most abundant at certain times of the year

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