Improved hook-ups

[Korrie]

my question is this: Does the inside of the fish's mouth look like the paper? If so i am not buying into this deal..

Hi Grant
The paper is harder than the fish's mouth. Except some boney ones (tigers and some sea specie).
When you have a flat piece where the hook has no chance to hook into, you twist the hook slightly and it immediately bites into the surface.
You can try the same excercise with a hook between the palms of your hands. Result the same.
All I can say, try it and let me know. I would like to see if the results are the same over a period of time.

[Scythe]

I've tied control cadddis on a circle variation with an offset tip ... the long and the short of it is that the shape of the hook made for a hideous fly.

So bugger that.

CJ, I'd like to know on what you base your claim that a forged hook will have less chance to tear out than say a regular hook ?

[jock0]

Offset tips are nothing new and have a few advantages. They also help a hell of a lot with fish that like to get aerial.

The problem with the way you are going about offsetting the tip it is that by bending the hook yourself you are weakening it substantially. Not all brands of hook survive being debarbed without the tip breaking off so take this into consideration. Speak to the competitive guys about hook brands and debarbing and see what they have to say.

[MCC]

In principle the offset point works well in actually hooking fish. In practical fly fishing terms, the offset hook presents a lot of problems. When bait fishing, the offset point is not an issue because the hook is obviously not being dragged through the water. It is stationary or at best drifting with the current.

First and foremost is the fact that, similar to its effectiveness at hooking into a fish's mouth, it also hooks up on the bottom equally well. Exactly the same thing happens on the bottom of a river as what happens between sheets of paper. The end result is that the tip goes blunt very fast. I tried the Pertridge Czech Nymph hooks on the Vaal and due to this blunting, stopped using them.

The second aspect worth considering is that the offset point will cause the fly to twist and spin in the water. This should only happen when there is drag on a fly, but even during Czech Nymph presentations, you end each drift with a swing & hold. This is in effect drag and will make the fly spin. The only way to avoid this is by adding sufficient weight to act as a keel. Once you do this, you end up with the bottom hooking problem again.

[Korrie]

In principle the offset point works well in actually hooking fish. In practical fly fishing terms, the offset hook presents a lot of problems. When bait fishing, the offset point is not an issue because the hook is obviously not being dragged through the water. It is stationary or at best drifting with the current.

First and foremost is the fact that, similar to its effectiveness at hooking into a fish's mouth, it also hooks up on the bottom equally well. Exactly the same thing happens on the bottom of a river as what happens between sheets of paper. The end result is that the tip goes blunt very fast. I tried the Pertridge Czech Nymph hooks on the Vaal and due to this blunting, stopped using them.

The second aspect worth considering is that the offset point will cause the fly to twist and spin in the water. This should only happen when there is drag on a fly, but even during Czech Nymph presentations, you end each drift with a swing & hold. This is in effect drag and will make the fly spin. The only way to avoid this is by adding sufficient weight to act as a keel. Once you do this, you end up with the bottom hooking problem again.

Thanks for your input MC
I agree that it does add up to some blunting, but with a hook-up rate that have increase by a huge margin and less lost fish during the fight, because of deeper hooking into the jaw, the sharping of the hook every 15 or 20 minutes is a small price to pay, for me.
By fishing thinner diameter and softer tippet material, the flies are a lot less weighted. The lighter flies are a lot less in contact with the bottom, which leads to the hook staying sharper, much longer. As for my personel experience I have not noticed a huge increase in spinning or twisting. Have probaly attributed the twist or spinning, if any, to the softer, thinner tippet.
I suppose there is always a price to pay for every advantage, or what you percieve to be an advantage. You just have to decide which price is worth for you.