Spline Placement

[gkieser]

Howzit guys,

I posted this in Rod building cos you guys here would probably know more about this.

This morning I snapped my Explorer Guide 7wt WHILE CASTING IT! It snapped about an inch above the ferrule of the 2nd section.

I thought that it was unusual to break a rod by casting it and I noticed that the spline of the blank was situated on the side (ie 90 degrees from the guides). Everything that I have read has said that the guides should be placed on the spline (stiff side - for fighting power) or opposite the spline (soft side - for casting power). If the spline is positioned on the side it causes twist in the blank which makes it harder to cast and easier to break.

I always thought it casted well untill I casted (obviously) better quality rods since then and now realise I had to try and force it.

Anyways, I have a few questions:
1) Have any of you ever heard any reason for placing the spline on the rod rather than the top or bottom? I cannot imagine there would be one.
2) If any of you have explorer guide rods, I would love to know if my rod is just a manufacturing defect or if all Explorer Guide series rods have the spline placed on the side of the rod, or if it is random and they don't actually about where it is (Most worrying!). If mine is not an exception then I would not recommend anyone to buy these rods in future as there is a higher risk of breakage.
3) I have heard that on better quality rods the spline is less visible, but on my Explorer guide blank it is easy to spot and it was not even close to straight - does that matter at all? I would have thought a good fly rod should have as straight a spline as possible.

Thinking about it now, I would imagine it is probably a very good idea to locate the spline of a rod that one intends to buy before buying it as it seems you can learn a lot of the qualities of the rod from that (ie is it a casting or fighting tool and if it is a good build).

Cheers
G

[KevinC]

Howzit guys,



This morning I snapped my Explorer Guide 7wt WHILE CASTING IT! It snapped about an inch above the ferrule of the 2nd section.

I told you that a brick imitation would not work for leeries...

[gkieser]

Cheaky Bastard!

Kevin was fishing with me and nout of interest we compared his Hardy and the spline was not at all visible. When finding it by rolling the blank, it was positioned perfectly.

My concern is that these Explorer Guide rods have a very good rep so if mine is just a defective one I can understand that, but if it is the norm then I would love to know why everyone thinks so highly of them.

[dlampert]

Cheaky Bastard!

Kevin was fishing with me and nout of interest we compared his Hardy and the spline was not at all visible. When finding it by rolling the blank, it was positioned perfectly.

My concern is that these Explorer Guide rods have a very good rep so if mine is just a defective one I can understand that, but if it is the norm then I would love to know why everyone thinks so highly of them.

Hi Grant,

James Warne broke my 9wt 5pc Guide Series while casting it at Witsand - it broke at the bottom ferrule. I suspect that these rods have a problem with the ferrules not seating properly - I have been promising myself for a while that I would treat all my ferrules with candle wax but have yet to do it. Perhaps it is time to start looking at this.

As for the spline, I suspect that on the cheaper rods they couldn't give a damn about the spline placement and simply put the eyes on in the most convenient place.

All thumb suck, so treat as such.

Rgds,
Darryl

[KevinC]

Darryl- the interesting thing in this case was that the ferrule was tightly fitted when the rod snapped. The rod snapped just above the end of the ferrule and the female section of the ferrule was still sitting firmly on the male section after the rod had snapped. I also noticed that the blank around the female section is helluva thin. I have been considering buying either the Guide Series or a Vision 3 zone (need a new 6wt)- suffice to say that my decision has been made- that Guide should never have snapped there.

This, together with my Explorer Eclipse reel falling apart on the river, leaves me with allot of questions regarding Explorer's quality control.

[smallstreams.co.za]

As for the spline, I suspect that on the cheaper rods they couldn't give a damn about the spline placement and simply put the eyes on in the most convenient place.

Darryl - you are spot on. These rods are churned out at an enormous rate, and there is definately no time to find spines and align the guides to a specific side.

I was lucky enough to be mailed a 28 page photo-essay document a long time ago from a mate in the UK who visitied the Daiwa factory. I don't have the document anymore, neither do I have contact with him, so unfortunately I cannot forward the document.

He commented specifically on how the rods where just taken from assembly and finishing point without any means of checking or quality checking. So, I guess the same could happen at the factory where the Explorers are made.

Keep in mind, these blanks/rods are not solely made for Explorer, but many other rod companies around the world. They just get the Explorer badge along the way. That means MASS production, and that is where the faults creep in!!

[MaXiMuM]

I read somewhere recently that Sage don't build their rods on the spine any more, they feel the graphite is good enough not to change the performance wheather it is on the spine or not. However, my twin is definitly on the spin, so maybe I got lucky.

There is another theory, that I miss read it and that they are not building 6W or higher on the spine, but I cant remember... Hell, I wish I had saved that link...

[StephenL]

Do a search on www.rodbuilding.org, you will be suprised on how often this topic is discussed. Some good posts on if finding the spine or not is worth it.

A lot of manufatures(apparantly Sage included) follow the straightest line which is not necessarily the spine.I suppose the straightest line looks better to buyers.
I have been thinking about his to as I have a 4 piece 8# TiCr X blank on its way. Not to sure how I would find the spine on the butt section as its not that flexible so will more than likely ignore it.

Stephen

[dlampert]

Darryl- the interesting thing in this case was that the ferrule was tightly fitted when the rod snapped. The rod snapped just above the end of the ferrule and the female section of the ferrule was still sitting firmly on the male section after the rod had snapped. I also noticed that the blank around the female section is helluva thin. I have been considering buying either the Guide Series or a Vision 3 zone (need a new 6wt)- suffice to say that my decision has been made- that Guide should never have snapped there.

This, together with my Explorer Eclipse reel falling apart on the river, leaves me with allot of questions regarding Explorer's quality control.

Kevin,

Interesting, I suppose the one thing Explorer has got going for it is the warranty and reasonable after sales service. Any rod can break, I have broken Explorer, Stealth and Horizon - as long as you can get replacement bits in a reasonable time and at a resonable cost.

Rgds,
Darryl

[gkieser]

I would have thought that if you can find the spline of the blank by rolling it, it should still have an affect on the properties of the rod.