Red Lion fish in East London estuaries?

[Gaza]

Please enlighten me on this one.
I spent some time down in East London , and of course spent a whole lot of time fishing the various estuaries there.
One afternoon , hunting up the banks of Nahoon , on a low tide , with some rocky ledges exposed , I noticed some Red Lion fish right up against the bank , swimming tight along the rocks. They seemed to be resident , as i found plenty of them all along the bank , each one guarding his patch.
But here is the rub. At the time I was not sure what the fish was , and grabbed my copy of Coastal Fishes of SA. Alas , no mention of this fish species.
So Mr Google was consulted , and just about every reference I found lists this fish as an invasive species.
Is this the case for our waters as well?
PS , the fish that I saw is a Red Lion fish , of that I am sure . I watched one while snorkeling , so I got a good close up. Their sizes vary from 10cm to about 20cm.

[core fly]

I have seen similar fish before.I originally come from E.L so maybe as a younster I ran into them.Thanks for identifying it.Must say it looks like those "japanese fighting" fish people keep as pets.

[Byron]

I've seen them further south/west in the Kariga river, not sure it was exactly the same fish but one of those - more black in the colouring if I remember. Pretty little things.

[KevinE]

Gaza when I was living in EL, Nahoon river was a well known place to collect various tropical fish for aquariums. There were often youngsters with nets trying to catch these fish near the mouth. I can't remember the names of all the fish, but some were really colourful.

Apparantly these fish move down the east coast with the warm current in summer. But they can't survive the winter and are doomed to die if they remain. That is why there was never any objection to collecting them.

I asume the same applies to these lionfish.

[Andre]

Gaza when I was living in EL, Nahoon river was a well known place to collect various tropical fish for aquariums. There were often youngsters with nets trying to catch these fish near the mouth. I can't remember the names of all the fish, but some were really colourful.

Apparantly these fish move down the east coast with the warm current in summer. But they can't survive the winter and are doomed to die if they remain. That is why there was never any objection to collecting them.

I asume the same applies to these lionfish.

Alien fish also get transported in the ballast of ships. Lion fish's spines are highly venomous, so they should be handled with care....preferably not at all.

[Herman Jooste]

Alien fish also get transported in the ballast of ships. Lion fish's spines are highly venomous, so they should be handled with care....preferably not at all.

I have never even thought of that. It however makes sense, especially if a ship has to take on ballast after a dry docking in other waters.

Maybe the POTR, aka TOF, can enlighten us on the ballast issue.

[Kevin James]

Maybe the POTR, aka TOF, can enlighten us on the ballast issue.

Herman,

Ballast Water Management (BWM) comes under the Quarantine Act, Marpol Annex I and II, Marine Orders Part 91 and 93, State Marine Pollution Act.

I'm sure BWM would have its own set of rules there in South Africa under Marpol Annex I and II. Actually......maybe not!!

I know for a fact here in Aussie, ballast water needs to be dumped 200 miles from the coast and new 'local' water taken onboard. As long as the water is dumped at a distance of 200 miles from the coast, there doesn't pose much risk.

Ballast water can be a deadly carrier of noxious weed, limpets and types of mussel spore that can be invasive if dumped into shallow enough water so that they can take hold.

I'm sure there will be someone who will know more about the subject.

Apologies GAZA for diverting this thread somewhat - beautiful looking fish the LionFish aren't they.

[Gaza]

No worries about the diversions . It leads to other topics of interest.
But I am not sure that these guys die out in winter in the Nahoon waters.
There were was quite a few of them around , and in various sizes , which suggests a few seasons worth of spawned fish.
And I agree with Andre. These guys are loaded with spines , and apparently quite aggressive about defending their territory.
The University of Florida Fisheries Dept. spend a lot of time collecting these guys of the reefs around Florida , as the apparently have a huge impact on reefs , and breed profusely. And apparently they have no natural predators.
So a case of doing what you want ...

[Gaza]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar0CX8dj948&fmt=18

[chris williams]

Herman,

Ballast Water Management (BWM) comes under the Quarantine Act, Marpol Annex I and II, Marine Orders Part 91 and 93, State Marine Pollution Act.

I'm sure BWM would have its own set of rules there in South Africa under Marpol Annex I and II. Actually......maybe not!!

I know for a fact here in Aussie, ballast water needs to be dumped 200 miles from the coast and new 'local' water taken onboard. As long as the water is dumped at a distance of 200 miles from the coast, there doesn't pose much risk.

Ballast water can be a deadly carrier of noxious weed, limpets and types of mussel spore that can be invasive if dumped into shallow enough water so that they can take hold.

I'm sure there will be someone who will know more about the subject.

Apologies GAZA for diverting this thread somewhat - beautiful looking fish the LionFish aren't they.

Sorry to add to a mini-hijack, but yes, our local SAMSA rules and international MARPOL pollution laws are now treated very seriously here as regards deballasting and pollution. This has really only started in the last few years but better late than never...Talking about mini-hijacks, the only guys who don't seem to heed these regulations are some fly-by-night owners and Somali pirates who are shipping's answer to errant taxi drivers and Dainfern Daisies...

Those lion fish are indeed bad news - I class them with scorpion fish and stonefish as the guys I'd least like to be stung by or tread on in the water..