colour of floating lines

[Andre]

I did an interesting little excercise today. A nice hot day in the Cape, just my son Michael and myself at home, decided to go for a swim in the pool. As usual, the conversation turned to fly fishing, and we were discussing what the trout see from below. We decided to get some floating lines in different colours, and lay them on the surface of the pool, go under them with goggles, and see what they look like. Well very interesting, we used chartreuse, orange, pink, white, brown and light blue... all floaters. Guess what ? they all look the same, from underneath, against the bright sky, they all look black, like a sillouhette. Beggs the question... does the colour of the floater actually make one small scrap of difference?... i don't think so.

[Stephen Louw]

I agree. Until recently, I always bought the dullest most natural looking line - browns and light greens, etc., on the assumption they would be less visible to fish. Were I to buy my lines again, I would go for the brightest colours, on the assumption that I could see them more easily, and fish them more efficiently.

Makes sense to me. But then again, we really don't know for sure what fish see and don't see.

[Andre]

I agree. Until recently, I always bought the dullest most natural looking line - browns and light greens, etc., on the assumption they would be less visible to fish. Were I to buy my lines again, I would go for the brightest colours, on the assumption that I could see them more easily, and fish them more efficiently.

Makes sense to me. But then again, we really don't know for sure what fish see and don't see.

We have a pretty good idea what fish see. Optical analyses of the eyes of animals, is based on the number of "rods and cones" in the eye. The one detects colour, and the other detects contrast. Fish have many more of the one that detects contrast and not so many of the ones that detect colour. By analysing rods and cones in an animals eye, scientists can get a pretty good idea of what an animal sees.
The other thing that I thought about, is that colour is detected by the eye percieving the reflected light from the object. A sillouhette reflects no light. therefore it looks black. when looking at a sillouhette, you are looking at the part of the object that is in shadow, so I doubt that any animal, no matter what eyesight they have, will be able to see colour where it is not being reflected. What is actually being seen, is the contrast, not the colour.
It would be interesting to hear some technical evaluation of this theory from an optometrist on the forum, or someone who has studied optics.

[gkieser]

Hey boet! Today was a frikken good day for swimming! Frikken jealous as i was in a mall for most of the day.

I have some interesting counter-thoughts for the discussion:

1) If what you say is true, then why do we spend so much time selecting specifically coloured dry flies? The same principle should apply to flies on the surface that applies to fly lines, yet sometimes we know that they will be more interested in an olive parachute and won't touch a black one, or vice versa.

2) We must consider the movement of the line in the air before it lands on the water. The moving line is something that will spook a good deal of fish especially in low water conditions. This is probably where dull colours have the advantage. If the fly line is the same or similar colours as the bushes, or does not reflect a lot of light (as bright coloured lines do), the line has a better chance to blend in while moving through the air, whereas lines that are brightly coloured will contrast big time against the background of the dull greens and browns of the environment above the water. It's not so much about specific colours, but more about the contrast as was mentioned earlier, and how fish are adapted more to seeing these contrasts. It would be very interesting to do the same experiment that you did, ie looking up while someone casts the line, and try and see how early you can see the line before it lands on the water.

3) What you doin casting your fly line over a fish's head ey? Maybe you should lengthen your leader? hehehehe

4) come lets you and me get together on the water soon to test it all out (in the name of science of course!)

[Gerrit Viljoen]

We have a pretty good idea what fish see.

I agree and disagree.

You haven't made provision for UV and it is on this topic where we can improve immensely as fishers and tyers. The latter not relevent to your line test for the time being,but still keep it in mind for at the bench,

There are two books in particular which I'm studying at an on off basis i.e. What fish see and The New Scientific Angling.

Both are huge eye openers (excuse the pun) so a suggestion from my side is to add them to your reading material. I can shed some light on it but ain't 100% reading material yet.

I really think we haven't got a clue yet, we're clutching at straws still.

[Andre]

Hey boet! Today was a frikken good day for swimming! Frikken jealous as i was in a mall for most of the day.

I have some interesting counter-thoughts for the discussion:

1) If what you say is true, then why do we spend so much time selecting specifically coloured dry flies? The same principle should apply to flies on the surface that applies to fly lines, yet sometimes we know that they will be more interested in an olive parachute and won't touch a black one, or vice versa.

2) We must consider the movement of the line in the air before it lands on the water. The moving line is something that will spook a good deal of fish especially in low water conditions. This is probably where dull colours have the advantage. If the fly line is the same or similar colours as the bushes, or does not reflect a lot of light (as bright coloured lines do), the line has a better chance to blend in while moving through the air, whereas lines that are brightly coloured will contrast big time against the background of the dull greens and browns of the environment above the water. It's not so much about specific colours, but more about the contrast as was mentioned earlier, and how fish are adapted more to seeing these contrasts. It would be very interesting to do the same experiment that you did, ie looking up while someone casts the line, and try and see how early you can see the line before it lands on the water.

3) What you doin casting your fly line over a fish's head ey? Maybe you should lengthen your leader? hehehehe

4) come lets you and me get together on the water soon to test it all out (in the name of science of course!)

Howzit broo...long time no see.....
Ya I hear you. i don't dispute any of what you say... just made an interesting observation about line colour and was puzzling through it.. Trust you to pick up on the leader issue. When i wrote it, i thought.., "now I wonder whose going to come back first with that one"... and lo and behold.....
Oh, and please can we make it maths, and not science...... ?
Ya, and the colours of flies...I don't know. Perhaps fish can detect the frequecies of colours through their lateral line or something... I dont know, but even a white fly from underneath, against a bright sky, looks balack.. interesting point of conjecture I suppose. Lets raise it with "Einstein"

[GrahamS]

Try the same exercise, but get your son to cast the lines over the water surface while you are underwater. IMO that's where colour makes a big difference.

[damage]

If the fish sees your flyline over him he will spook no matter the color


I proved this last weekend with Darryl saying Noooooo in slowmo as I let to much line out on a cast .
I saw the top fish And there was one behind it that I hadn't seen
As soon as the line landed it spooked the back fish spooking the one I had seen

/d

[Ricko]

This type of conversation is what make this forum No. 1 !!

Most of you have Gary Borger's book : Presentation . Borger spend a lot of ink on this subject :line color. He even went as far as fishing neon orange lines in NZ waters and found the color to have no effect. ( as per previous post's in this thread it line color AID the fisherman to fish more efficiently)BUT , line movement and line FLASH did spook fish all over. Of course it is a completely different story with any sub surface lines.

Our casting lesson outfit has a BRIGHT PINK line on the reel , this aid the caster to see the line and make them understand the mechanics of casting a lot quicker

[Andre]

Try the same exercise, but get your son to cast the lines over the water surface while you are underwater. IMO that's where colour makes a big difference.

Ya, we did this Graham, but from directly underneath, with the sky behind, we still couldn't guess the colour. Seeing an aerialised line from the side, it becomes a little easier to pick up the colour, but this also has issues, as the fish won't see it from the side, as their window is directly upwards, and if you are casting to the side of the fish, the fly is going to land no where near the fish. Also difficult to see through the reflection from the underside of the surface. Also did an excercise with the swimming pool water very still, and then the same, with the water broken and the suface disrupted. Smooth water, the line is visible as it flies through the air above, but with the surface disturbed, I couln't even see the line being cast above.