CTS V Sage

[nicholas]

I read an article in this months/last month flyfisher mag by a one of the most respected fly fisherman in SA about his opinions on what his favourite rod is and he said that he likes his CTS rod made by Mario (i think, 2") and his Sage 00 (OR 0 OR 000 cannot remember), he said that he was very impressed with the work coming out of CTS and it would be intresting to see waht happens in the future...he gave the impression that they are as good as Sage, i am pharaphrasing the article but those who have read it will know what i am talking about.
So what do you guys think is CTS really that good.

[NeilRowe]

Nick

I have built a number of CTS rods for myself and many more Sage's. In my opinion, CTS blanks are very good but they are definitely not up to Sage quality. They are cheaper though and will yield a very good value for money rod. They are convenient in that one can order odd variations of length and line weight (although I am sceptical of this in certain instances)

I have had QC issues with CTS blanks. Some were perfect, others had a blotchy appearance indicating an inconsistent spray paint job. To be fair, I never followed this up with CTS and I am sure they probably would have replaced the blanks had I insisted.

Sage VXP blanks and kits are probably in the same ball park price-wise and I know which of the two I would order. The Sage lifetime warranty and dealer support is also a big plus.

[Michael]

Hi Nick

The person you refer to in the article...I'm not sure how many CTS rods he has fished, as far as I know I think it's only one? I may be wrong...but anyway...
Based on that, it's unfair to Sage to say the CTS rods are just as good because CTS has 100's of blanks in their range, as does Sage. You can't base an opinion on just one blank or compared to one or two rods.
I've built up many CTS and Sage rods, of the popular sizes and not so popular sizes, weights, and even colours.
In my experience, every CTS blank I have got from them was extremely good...to me, on par with the best brands out there. Unlike Neil, I have never experienced blemishes or blotches in the colour. (And as Neil rightly mentions, CTS would replace any defective blanks immediately should you approach them. Their after-sales service is great. The only drawback is they are far away of course, with no local back-up. But some postage there and back and you are sorted. I myself have never needed to send a CTS blank back though, as the quality has always been great...in appearance, colour, straightness, etc).

The only issues with CTS in the past have been:
- very long lead times
- Shipping only via FedEx which loaded the price significantly (to make it worthwhile, you had to ship at least 3 or more blanks, to split the shipping cost)

They have addressed the shipping issue, by negotiating a flat rate via FedEx to ship blanks, which is a lot less than it used to be. And, if you get more than one blank, the price drops.

That said, the new VXP blanks have made a huge impact. Now you can get a bloody decent Sage blank at a great price.
Even with the other Sage models...if you put on inexpensive (but decent) components the price is attractive and very worthwhile. It may not be Struble and the like that Sage use on their factory rods, but it's good, holds the reel, does the job, and makes owning a Sage a little more accessible.

So at the end of the day, it boils down to your choice. Go Sage or go CTS, either way you won't be sorry.
With CTS you have a lot more choices, options, colours, configurations, etc...but you will wait a while longer. The quality is there though, make no mistake. I fish three CTS built up rods myself, and they are superb.
With Sage, you have a reputable brand and excellent quality too, and a very wide range...if you can't find a rod suitable for you in the Sage range, you need to rather take up drop-shot fishing...
The local representation of Sage is great too.
I fish a few Sage rods too, and love them as well.

I never want to go into the CTS vs Sage debate...as they are both great rods and I can happily recommend any one of the two. If however price is a concern for you, and if you like the reputable brand names...VXP is the way to go. It's great value for money.

[NeilRowe]

Mike

I built 3 CTS rods for myself. Sold 2 and kept 1.

Agree with your synopsis as posted. Long lead times etc.

I was very happy with my first 8' 3wt MX (4 piece) but the 6 piece had a lot of blemishes. I still have this rod and will show it to you one day.

But, like Andre, I am a Sage person and unashamedly so. (I did stray, I admit, from the chosen path with a short dabble along the CTS route but have subsequently been totally rehabilitated)

A little bird whispered to me that the CD blanks from NZ are also very nice.

[Michael]

Neil

The CTS brand has an immense following overseas, and for good reason.
Sage has a huge following too, also for good reason.

At the end of the day, it boils down to what you like. It's like cars...some guys love one brand and hate another, while other guys are exactly the opposite. (I'm talking two good brands, just different, of course)

I love Sage rods...they are superb. But, I have not been able to fault the CTS rods. Really enjoy them too. Their downfall in South Africa, is they are "new and unknown". And South African fly fishers are traditionally very reluctant to wander off the "tried and tested" path.

Hell, I mean some guys even fish bamboo still...

In my opinion, they are both great rods...I can't fault either on quality, feel, or appearance. I may like ones' action better than the others, in certain models...but that's about it. As I mentioned, both in Sage and CTS, you will find a rod that suits you in terms of action, feel, price, etc.

PS: The Composite Development blanks I have zero experience with, so can't comment on them. I have however heard from other builders that they prefer CTS to CD. But ja, that's just hearsay.

[markdej]

Hi Nick,

I can only comment in so far as saying that I have been immensley impressed with my Affinity One. But by the same token I would still not turn down a sage I think as has been mentioned, if you are looking for something different then CTS is a nice alternative. I must say though that unlike Neils experience /i have also been impressed with the finish and service /i recieved from them. Shipping isnt too quick but I wasnt in a hurry with my rod so that wasnt a factor. What I can add though is that both of the cts rods /i have been exposed to have been dead accurate. Though this only pertains to the affinity range. All in all they are great rods but I dont think one could crown them as sage slayers. The other thing to remember is sage dont just sell blanks. whereas with CTS you have no other choice but to build so consider that too when factoring in your after sales support.

On a side note chaps, I have a CD Down under series that is still a beaut to use inspite of it getting on in its years. Mines quite beefy thanks to the reinforced scrim, but its also pretty responsive and dead accurate too. Dont know if I would choose one over a CTS though...

[E.T.]

Composite Developments are awesome. They stock a whole range from Fly right through to heavy saltwater rods. They are very sought after even here, especially the Saltwater Spinning Blanks. I would rate these rods among the best out there.

Would I buy a CD Blank? Yes, no question about it.
Would I buy Sage? Yes I have and I will get some more.
Would I buy CTS? Have no experience with the rod, but what I have seen so far, I would say you can't go wrong with this brand.

[GGY]

I read an article in this months/last month flyfisher mag by a one of the most respected fly fisherman in SA about his opinions on what his favourite rod is and he said that he likes his CTS rod made by Mario (i think, 2") and his Sage 00 (OR 0 OR 000 cannot remember)

Just because a writer expresses an opinion does not mean that what he likes will suit your fishing/fishing style. Maybe ask the angler in the picture what he thought of the rod?

Gary

[dar]

What prices are you looking at for the SAGE and CTS blans?

[Andre]

I can't comment on CTS or CD rods, but I have fished with the odd Sage in my time, and they are reasonable sticks, in fact i quite like some of them. There are some Sages that have been dissapointing, but on the whole, nice rods....