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Thread: Fatal Shark Attack

  1. #11
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    Daryl Human

    The solution to any problem -- work, love, money, whatever -- is to go fishing, and the worse the problem, the longer the trip should be. --John Gierach

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzy View Post
    Ya News24 have it completely wrong, was only 1 shark . . .
    The closer one gets to realizing his destiny, the more that destiny becomes his true reason for being! Paulo Coelho

  3. #13
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    i dunno guys were apparently chumming around the corner from where the attack took place ... do you believe in coincidences?

    Quote Originally Posted by OllieOwen View Post
    Why all the fuss about the sharkmen and chumming
    ---------------------------------------------
    http://wildjohannesburg.blogspot.com

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OllieOwen View Post
    Why all the fuss about the sharkmen and chumming
    Firstly it will get the sharks in the bay into feeding mode and they will start to associate easy food with Humans. That's the idea anyway.
    An honest fisherman is a pretty uninteresting person.

    Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and not only is he hungry but broke for the rest of his life as well.

  5. #15
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    Firstly, condolences and thoughts to David's friends and family. It is a tragic loss to the SA surf community. It's close to home, it could of been any of us and it hurts.

    The following may be controversial, so be it.

    Our response to tragedies of this nature are always emotionally driven and often end up in lots of shouting with little listening and thinking.

    I would like to have the following questions answered - however I don't believe we can have them answered fully. But they are food for thought.

    1. Would there still have been an attack today had Sharkmen not been filmed at moment?
    -It's easy to make a positive correlation between chumming and attacks. However, it's a fact that correlation and causation are entirely different matters. Just because there is a positive correlation between chumming and shark attacks, the chumming is not necessarily the cause of these attacks.

    2. Conditioning requires stimulus - is a person in the water enough stimulus to cause a "Pavlovian reaction" in a shark? IE - Person = food? Pavlov's dog was conditioned using a bell and bowl of food. The bell was followed by the bowl of food which the dog ate. This was repeated many times before the conditioning occurred. Call the boat and the cage the bell and the chum (which normally just blood - law prohibits the actual feeding of sharks) the bowl of food. (Note: already we have a discrepancy - no actual food is being consumed by the sharks). Nowhere does the human form become part of the conditioning chain - they're on the boat or in the cage.

    3. Are we going to start calling chumming for tuna or sharks eating hooked fish close to boats a conditioning process as well?

    4. Surely a matter of time?
    - I've had two in the water shark scares by whites at Koeel over the seven years I lived in the area and surfed the spot. On three separate occasions we've seen whites patrolling within 100m of the surfers. Thats 5 encounters in 7 years - and there have been many others. If I spent the amount of time I did surfing walking around the Kruger Park I wonder if I'd still be typing this. Lets take all the water users (spearos, surfers and bodyboarders, etc) and get them all to walk around the Kruger for the same amount of time that they spend in the water, how many attacks by apex predators would occur?

    5. How do declining fish stocks affect an apex predators dietary requirements?

    6. What about affect of climate change on the behaviour of apex predators?

    Anyway, I do think we should be careful of jumping to conclusions and making broad assumptions about the attacks. While I don't agree with idea of chumming in and around false bay I also cannot point a finger and blame it as the cause of an attack either.
    Last edited by fdavis; 19-04-12 at 07:13 PM.

  6. #16
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    More people get killed by hippo's than sharks or crocks, victim was just unfortunate.
    Moral of the story, sh@T happens.
    DAVE
    Handle every situation like a dog.- If you cant hump it, piss on it and walk away. --JASPER.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdavis View Post
    Firstly, condolences and thoughts to David's friends and family. It is a tragic loss to the SA surf community. It's close to home, it could of been any of us and it hurts.

    The following may be controversial, so be it.

    Our response to tragedies of this nature are always emotionally driven and often end up in lots of shouting with little listening and thinking.

    I would like to have the following questions answered - however I don't believe we can have them answered fully. But they are food for thought.

    1. Would there still have been an attack today had Sharkmen not been filmed at moment?
    -It's easy to make a positive correlation between chumming and attacks. However, it's a fact that correlation and causation are entirely different matters. Just because there is a positive correlation between chumming and shark attacks, the chumming is not necessarily the cause of these attacks.

    2. Conditioning requires stimulus - is a person in the water enough stimulus to cause a "Pavlovian reaction" in a shark? IE - Person = food? Pavlov's dog was conditioned using a bell and bowl of food. The bell was followed by the bowl of food which the dog ate. This was repeated many times before the conditioning occurred. Call the boat and the cage the bell and the chum (which normally just blood - law prohibits the actual feeding of sharks) the bowl of food. (Note: already we have a discrepancy - no actual food is being consumed by the sharks). Nowhere does the human form become part of the conditioning chain - they're on the boat or in the cage.

    3. Are we going to start calling chumming for tuna or sharks eating hooked fish close to boats a conditioning process as well?

    4. Surely a matter of time?
    - I've had two in the water shark scares by whites at Koeel over the seven years I lived in the area and surfed the spot. On three separate occasions we've seen whites patrolling within 100m of the surfers. Thats 5 encounters in 7 years - and there have been many others. If I spent the amount of time I did surfing walking around the Kruger Park I wonder if I'd still be typing this. Lets take all the water users (spearos, surfers and bodyboarders, etc) and get them all to walk around the Kruger for the same amount of time that they spend in the water, how many attacks by apex predators would occur?

    5. How do declining fish stocks affect an apex predators dietary requirements?

    6. What about affect of climate change on the behaviour of apex predators?

    Anyway, I do think we should be careful of jumping to conclusions and making broad assumptions about the attacks. While I don't agree with idea of chumming in and around false bay I also cannot point a finger and blame it as the cause of an attack either.
    Let me just start by saying i do not have any of the right answers. But here is another thing to think about.

    While a agree with 90% of what you have said. My question to you is with all the chumming in the area are we just not moving the sharks closer to the Humans. See any predator has a hunting area and by us "calling the Shark" out of his normal area. Then we are surprise when he does not swim all the way home again and start looking for food close by ? Either way my fear is that at the end of the day Sharks are going to end up paying the big price. As fear make people do strange things.

    Condolences and thoughts to David's friends and family.
    Noted fly fishermen Lefty Kreh was once asked by a non-fisherman whats the sense was of catching fish just to let it go. He responded, “Do you burn your golf balls after a game?”

  8. #18
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    Isn't False bay renowned for shark attacks?
    Personally I dont think that chumming has anything to do with it, its not like they are chumming in the surf, right?
    Daryl Human

    The solution to any problem -- work, love, money, whatever -- is to go fishing, and the worse the problem, the longer the trip should be. --John Gierach

  9. #19
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    Agreed when we go into the sea we are entering there territory. If we like it or now they are the king of the sea. Shark attacks are not new. They will always be a issue. Treat them with respect that they have earned.
    Noted fly fishermen Lefty Kreh was once asked by a non-fisherman whats the sense was of catching fish just to let it go. He responded, “Do you burn your golf balls after a game?”

  10. #20

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    Very sad for a talented youngster to die like this BUT many more 20 year olds die on our roads every day. Everyone of us using the sea knows the risks.

    Wrong place, wrong time and as the one and only POPs said - sh#t happens...

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