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Thread: Hooks - Bait and Fly

  1. #1
    Wiets Banned User

    Default Hooks - Bait and Fly

    Why does one get hooks for bait fish and other hooks for fly fish?
    Is there really a difference between the two?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiets View Post
    Why does one get hooks for bait fish and other hooks for fly fish?
    Is there really a difference between the two?
    Yes Wiets. A bait hook is designed to hold the bait in place while it is being cottoned onto the hook. The little barbs that one often finds on these hooks are there to keep bait like muscle from slipping round and round the shank of the hook. The biggest difference is in the gape of the hook with bait hooks generally have a wider gape to allow for the protrusions of bait underneath the hook. Some bait hooks have the shank slightly offset from the bend of the hook onwards towards the barb for this very reason aswell.
    "Innocence is a wild trout. But we humans, being complicated, have to pursue innocence in complex ways" - Datus Proper

  3. #3
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    Technically "fly" hooks are only starting to catch up to "bait" hooks now. I might not be 100% correct but the first fly hooks to come with just an offset tip, instead of the entire last third being offset only came out about a year ago and were produced by Jan siman or Jirri Kilma? This offset tip proved to be a major advantage for guys using heavy patterns as the offset point helps prevent the fish from throwing the hook. There are similar cases with regard to tip styles (cone point, cutting egde point etc) and hook shape that you have also only recently started to see emerge in the "fly" specific hooks.

    I am by no means a seasoned fly tier but the only reason I use "fly" specific hooks is if I cant find conventional hooks in the style I am looking for (not very often). I actually tied my first trout specific flies on some mustad number 8 offset cone tip saltwater bait hooks and they beat the pants off anything "fly" specific in a similar wire weight. If I'm tying streamers the barbs on the back of the bait hooks actually seem to help achieve a better construction as the material cant move around the shank very easily.

    Just my 2c
    Check your knots!

  4. #4
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    Went down to the local tackle shop a day or two for some popper hooks. To my surprise they (with the kink in the shank) were R5 a hook!!! I had a look around and found some others for a quarter of the price that had a very similar shape (excluding kink). They didn't have the bait-holders either. So I took those instead sharpened them up, tied an upside down staple into the top and voila! They hold VAS!!
    The point is a boer maak a plan (though Ive never farmed a day in my life). Wiets your the King at finding alternate materials, just look out for the differences that Chris has already pointed out and you will be fine.
    Around the steel no tortur'd worm shall twine, No blood of living insect stain my line;
    Let me, less cruel, cast feather'd hook, With pliant rod athwart the pebbled brook,
    Silent along the mazy margin stray, And with fur-wrought fly delude the prey

  5. #5
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    Hi guys

    Hooks, including fly tying hooks, are the beginning and end of everything. It is by far the most important aspect in fly tying and can make or break hours of hard work. I refer here primarily to the practical aspect of actually holding a fish, but also to the appearance of flies tied on them and to the impact of hook design on the end product. Both of these aspects are equally important to me.

    On the freshwater side there are hundreds of brands and/or models to choose from and you can pretty much find anything that you require. This includes shape, size, wire diameter, weight, barbed or barbless and many others.

    The most recent developments in freshwater hook design have ocured in the area of barbless hooks. The most notable brands include Knapek, Partridge, Hanak and Skalka. All of these brands originate in Europe and their popularity can be linked directly to competitive fishing. The only drawback of the Knapek hooks are that the offset point can, especially with lightweight flies, cause the fly to spin in the water. The Hanak hooks do not have this offset tip and can therefore fill the gap left by Knapek.

    On the saltwater side hooks are equally important. In saltwater tying we do not need the huge range of different shapes that we need for freshwater tying. The differences in saltwater relates mainly to materials used and wire diameter. The most popular brands include Gamakatsu, Mustad and Tiemco. In the USA Owner, VMC and Daichi also feature, but locally they are as yet not easily available. The most notable characteristic of all saltwater fly tying hooks are the fact that they are completely straight and this is of course essential in any design where the fly is going to be retrieved at some pace.

    Many bait fishermen, both fresh and salt, use fly tying hooks. The most common are the Carp fishing guys who use Caddis style hooks and R & S fishermen who use the Gamakatsu Trey Combs hooks.

    There can be no doubt that bait hooks are as good or sometimes even better than fly tying hooks. In most instances this is however only true in so far as the fish holding qualities are concerned. Bait hooks, due to shape and/or colour, generally can not form the basis of tying a "pretty" fly and together herewith the offset design makes them impractical.

    My 2c

    Cheers
    MC

  6. #6
    Wiets Banned User

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    To all who posted - thanks for the clarity!

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