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Thread: Caddis worm dubbings?

  1. #21
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    Sep 2006
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    How is that Hends line MC? I picked some up yesterday but have yet to tie with it?

  2. #22
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    Dec 2006
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    Hi guys, just seen your very interesting interchanges on caddis dubbing, I've a couple of ideas (which no doubt will get shot down in flames!) incorporating old materials also some new-wave materials and hopefully ideas, hope send you some info next week - good fishin' to y'all this w/e !

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toddler Town
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    13

    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by MCC View Post
    Gary just got lucky and his flies don't really work that well.


    If you want to tie really deadly patterns, then visit Sean at Flywaters. He just landed a new batch of Hends materials. Check out the new thread and the Spectraflash. This is the stuff that the Finland team use as shellback on their Czech nymphs. Some other very useful materials as well and the prices are good.
    What an amazing Store..

    Just superb..

    One day i'll feel guilty about all the Coffee i drink there..

    Now if they'll just get a good looking Girl to man the Till..
    I do not endorse the products or services that may be advertised in the content of this post.

    Please use their competitors instead.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Vandia Grove, Gauteng
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    Guys, you're really innovative and with the new materials on the block the world's your 'lobster' - keep it up! - very inspirational!

    I've got a free afternoon as you'll see from below b'shot but here we go:

    Presume we're talking caddis larvae not caddis pupae - on the latter obviously Magic Tool/Turbo machines and different materials like seal's fur and 'bubble-captive' synthetics will suit to give the aerating look, but they're too bulky for 'slimline' larvae - in my opinion anyway

    Caddis larvae on the 'Upper' Vaal - from what I've seen as a short-sighted bumbling entomologist:

    Two main types, both of Hydropsychidae (net-spinning) family:
    1) Macrostemum Capense Signatum - sub-species - the only other sub-species is in Zambia and won't to be able to afford the flight over.
    and
    2) Hydropsyche - genus - of which there are many species within our neck on the woods.

    1) What is referred to locally to as 'Green rock worm'. Occasionally - very occasionally Latin serves the function of separating 'bass' from 'bass' etc etc so everyone internationally knows exactly what you're talking about. I have yet to classify my wife in Latin, finding that Old English generally gets the point across. Our Vaal green rock worm is in no way related to the Rhyacophilidae family - which the Americans also call 'green rock worm' as pupae. The Rhyaco pupae resemble a bunch of green soccer balls glued together and do not exist on the African continent so using American imitations may well be a waste of time as they're meant to imitate something totally different. Our 'Macrostemum Capense Signatum' (wow, dude, a sub-species, party time!) is only found in the Vaal area worldwide. It's verging towards grub-like - check the great 'Aquatic Invertebrates' (is that a reference to the loser with no permit on CPS waters?) or newish Struik 'Insects of Southern Africa' - all the old books sans colour photos whilst being cute are obsolete for us fishers. These are on average about 0.8/1.5cm in length (the pupae not the books)

    2) 'Mustard caddis' is usually meant as one of the several Hydropsyche species. They are thinner than the Signatum guys above, and often marginally longer. They also often frequent slower water. What is 'mustard'? What is 'Green Rock Worm' green? I've been blending natural - and only recently synthetic - materials for many, many years, mainly ending up with even more bits of blue fluff in my belly button than ever before.

    A couple of things I do - some of which I'm certain is crap, and some of which no doubt you guys can improve on?:

    1) first thing at the water get the net/thermometer etc etc out and check what the water's doing, what larvae or nymphs are around etc

    2) get a couple of larvae/nymph samples in little jars.

    3) check the various colours of the parts of their body against paint charts which I have on hand. That way you know exactly what colour the little buggers are and don't need to rely on 'yellowy/gold/creamy' etc. as a reference colour. The same species can vary in colour within a small piece of water depending on water/rock colourings etc. How serious you need get on this I don't really think....-but it whiles away the time and I guess a decent fisher with right tactics will nail with a general pattern over some loser like myself with a 'close imitation'.

    4) when you're tying caddis pupae and blending materials. Differentiate between natural and synthetic when blending. In the ol' days in England I was privileged to fish on the Wiltshire Avon where we had Frank Sawyer running the Army flyfishing waters where my Dad was based. He was a maestro and I still liaise with his son Tim and grandson Nick. Natural dubbing we'd blend in jamjars quarter-full of water using old pairs of underpants to stop the fur coming out of the top. No bloody Molineux blenders in those days - luxury! That way with natural material you can see the real colour via the jar that it'll be to the fish in the water. Turn the jar upside down and squeeze the fur dryish in your old broeks. Tip - don't use Terblanche's. We used to use (of which I've still got a bit) - mole, rabbit, hare, squirrel (seal etc only for pupae..). Frank Sawyer, apart from the inimibable PTN, also inter alia developed the Killer Bug which was a heavier version of the PTN and was made up of a-now extinct factory called Chadwicks and their no 477 brand wool. (See where a paint chart can roughly define a colour). Nick brings in some stuff from USA but it's not the same - I still have the original stuff. When you're blending natural fur put a piece of paper in your blending compartment with a rough percentage of proportions of colours. With synthetics, as you younger brethren advise, simply chuck in one or half a packet of holo, ice dub or whatever - a lot easier to describe!
    Enough of sentimentality.

    5) couple of my tying hints - to ensure quick realistic pupae - no time for messing around on fancy stuff.
    hooks - new patridge flashpoints are magic - and pricey. atll the way thru to the el cheapo mustad curved papgoier hooks. eagle claw circles good and prevent hook-ups but their re-sharpening leaves a bit to be desired.
    use flattened lead - e.g. siman square stuff, alt put round lead thru a pasta mangle...
    use old scrap white ('shines' thru natural not synthetic tho, as a 'livener')thread to taper body. remember caddis need thicker bit in the middle unlike gammarus etc when more weight to the rear (story of my life)
    tie the underbodies in one session say a dozen at a go and seal off with e.g. Sally Hansen advanced hard as nails or whatever it's called - so much quicker-drying and smoother than the old stuff.
    Most of mine are tied 'Czech' style though most of us were tying rudimentary versions back in the 60's - 1960's that is... for grayling in the acidic streams on the Welsh border.
    My recipe - tie in 2lb Maxima ribbing first (don't bother with Czech wire underribbing waste of time in my opinion) - the natural of both Hydrop. have about 11/12 segments in total - about 9 behind in the mustard/green abdomen and about three in the brownish thorax/head.
    Then tie in (it may be 'flash' or matt) shrimp or whatever back - simans is great - but expensive - you can have it coloure or transparent. The good ol' s.a.b. six-pack packaging is almost as good, a darn sight cheaper, and a lot more fun to procure. Add your dubbing as THINLY as possible to approx 2/3 towards the eye.
    Then add in bits of brown calf fur or simans thorax dubbing (cinnamon or brown) if you're feeling rich - you only need a few bits of the latter. Bring over the shellback and rib approx 11 times up the the eye. Here's why you'll see 2lb is better than 4lb - more space and tighter turnings! Do tighter ribbing arse and head end. Whip finish.
    Signatum - They're got chocolate block type colouring on the 'back' - get e.g. Letraset cocoa colour and add dipples on top of abdomen - v realistic. Add cocoa on top of thorax also tying silk.
    Hydrop. leave abdomen natural, add cocoa on thorax which is more clearly defined than the Signatum's.
    Finally, Your Majesty, add a nice finish of Sally Hansen over the entire back/thorax and head.

    Trim all the fluff off the abdomen for a streamlined finish, and trim thorax to resemble as few legs about 2-3cm long.

    These things are quick to tie and look almost real (except when I tie them) - forget larva lace, V lace, whatever... these things sink like bullets and you can vary the weight. I also use Maxima Clear (clearwater obviously) and Maxima Chameleon (Vaal typical water) as these two are really abrasion-resistant - more so than Ultragreen, they're the same price, don't twist around leade rwhen used as droppers as much, and unlike fluorocarbon will possible only last as long as our life time prior rotting. We did a test back in Oz when fluorocarbon was in the experimental stages. In clear water, a somewhat subjective survey between about a hundred of us came to the conclusion we'd get about 30% more trout using Seaguar fluorocarbon (I think they invented the stuff) as opposed to Maxima Ultragreen. It was subjective but the difference - under those conditions - was indeed noticeable.

    So many ideas, yet so little brains...

    Cheers guys, hope some of above may have sparked a few ideas and not ire!

  5. #25
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    Dec 2006
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    caddis pupae legs - 2-3mm not cm - I wasn't brought up in the metric age - stone age possibly

  6. #26
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    Sep 2006
    Location
    Pretoria
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris williams View Post
    Guys, you're really innovative and with the new materials on the block the world's your 'lobster' - keep it up! - very inspirational!

    I've got a free afternoon as you'll see from below b'shot but here we go:

    Presume we're talking caddis larvae not caddis pupae - on the latter obviously Magic Tool/Turbo machines and different materials like seal's fur and 'bubble-captive' synthetics will suit to give the aerating look, but they're too bulky for 'slimline' larvae - in my opinion anyway

    Caddis larvae on the 'Upper' Vaal - from what I've seen as a short-sighted bumbling entomologist:

    Two main types, both of Hydropsychidae (net-spinning) family:
    1) Macrostemum Capense Signatum - sub-species - the only other sub-species is in Zambia and won't to be able to afford the flight over.
    and
    2) Hydropsyche - genus - of which there are many species within our neck on the woods.

    1) What is referred to locally to as 'Green rock worm'. Occasionally - very occasionally Latin serves the function of separating 'bass' from 'bass' etc etc so everyone internationally knows exactly what you're talking about. I have yet to classify my wife in Latin, finding that Old English generally gets the point across. Our Vaal green rock worm is in no way related to the Rhyacophilidae family - which the Americans also call 'green rock worm' as pupae. The Rhyaco pupae resemble a bunch of green soccer balls glued together and do not exist on the African continent so using American imitations may well be a waste of time as they're meant to imitate something totally different. Our 'Macrostemum Capense Signatum' (wow, dude, a sub-species, party time!) is only found in the Vaal area worldwide. It's verging towards grub-like - check the great 'Aquatic Invertebrates' (is that a reference to the loser with no permit on CPS waters?) or newish Struik 'Insects of Southern Africa' - all the old books sans colour photos whilst being cute are obsolete for us fishers. These are on average about 0.8/1.5cm in length (the pupae not the books)

    2) 'Mustard caddis' is usually meant as one of the several Hydropsyche species. They are thinner than the Signatum guys above, and often marginally longer. They also often frequent slower water. What is 'mustard'? What is 'Green Rock Worm' green? I've been blending natural - and only recently synthetic - materials for many, many years, mainly ending up with even more bits of blue fluff in my belly button than ever before.

    A couple of things I do - some of which I'm certain is crap, and some of which no doubt you guys can improve on?:

    1) first thing at the water get the net/thermometer etc etc out and check what the water's doing, what larvae or nymphs are around etc

    2) get a couple of larvae/nymph samples in little jars.

    3) check the various colours of the parts of their body against paint charts which I have on hand. That way you know exactly what colour the little buggers are and don't need to rely on 'yellowy/gold/creamy' etc. as a reference colour. The same species can vary in colour within a small piece of water depending on water/rock colourings etc. How serious you need get on this I don't really think....-but it whiles away the time and I guess a decent fisher with right tactics will nail with a general pattern over some loser like myself with a 'close imitation'.

    4) when you're tying caddis pupae and blending materials. Differentiate between natural and synthetic when blending. In the ol' days in England I was privileged to fish on the Wiltshire Avon where we had Frank Sawyer running the Army flyfishing waters where my Dad was based. He was a maestro and I still liaise with his son Tim and grandson Nick. Natural dubbing we'd blend in jamjars quarter-full of water using old pairs of underpants to stop the fur coming out of the top. No bloody Molineux blenders in those days - luxury! That way with natural material you can see the real colour via the jar that it'll be to the fish in the water. Turn the jar upside down and squeeze the fur dryish in your old broeks. Tip - don't use Terblanche's. We used to use (of which I've still got a bit) - mole, rabbit, hare, squirrel (seal etc only for pupae..). Frank Sawyer, apart from the inimibable PTN, also inter alia developed the Killer Bug which was a heavier version of the PTN and was made up of a-now extinct factory called Chadwicks and their no 477 brand wool. (See where a paint chart can roughly define a colour). Nick brings in some stuff from USA but it's not the same - I still have the original stuff. When you're blending natural fur put a piece of paper in your blending compartment with a rough percentage of proportions of colours. With synthetics, as you younger brethren advise, simply chuck in one or half a packet of holo, ice dub or whatever - a lot easier to describe!
    Enough of sentimentality.

    5) couple of my tying hints - to ensure quick realistic pupae - no time for messing around on fancy stuff.
    hooks - new patridge flashpoints are magic - and pricey. atll the way thru to the el cheapo mustad curved papgoier hooks. eagle claw circles good and prevent hook-ups but their re-sharpening leaves a bit to be desired.
    use flattened lead - e.g. siman square stuff, alt put round lead thru a pasta mangle...
    use old scrap white ('shines' thru natural not synthetic tho, as a 'livener')thread to taper body. remember caddis need thicker bit in the middle unlike gammarus etc when more weight to the rear (story of my life)
    tie the underbodies in one session say a dozen at a go and seal off with e.g. Sally Hansen advanced hard as nails or whatever it's called - so much quicker-drying and smoother than the old stuff.
    Most of mine are tied 'Czech' style though most of us were tying rudimentary versions back in the 60's - 1960's that is... for grayling in the acidic streams on the Welsh border.
    My recipe - tie in 2lb Maxima ribbing first (don't bother with Czech wire underribbing waste of time in my opinion) - the natural of both Hydrop. have about 11/12 segments in total - about 9 behind in the mustard/green abdomen and about three in the brownish thorax/head.
    Then tie in (it may be 'flash' or matt) shrimp or whatever back - simans is great - but expensive - you can have it coloure or transparent. The good ol' s.a.b. six-pack packaging is almost as good, a darn sight cheaper, and a lot more fun to procure. Add your dubbing as THINLY as possible to approx 2/3 towards the eye.
    Then add in bits of brown calf fur or simans thorax dubbing (cinnamon or brown) if you're feeling rich - you only need a few bits of the latter. Bring over the shellback and rib approx 11 times up the the eye. Here's why you'll see 2lb is better than 4lb - more space and tighter turnings! Do tighter ribbing arse and head end. Whip finish.
    Signatum - They're got chocolate block type colouring on the 'back' - get e.g. Letraset cocoa colour and add dipples on top of abdomen - v realistic. Add cocoa on top of thorax also tying silk.
    Hydrop. leave abdomen natural, add cocoa on thorax which is more clearly defined than the Signatum's.
    Finally, Your Majesty, add a nice finish of Sally Hansen over the entire back/thorax and head.

    Trim all the fluff off the abdomen for a streamlined finish, and trim thorax to resemble as few legs about 2-3cm long.

    These things are quick to tie and look almost real (except when I tie them) - forget larva lace, V lace, whatever... these things sink like bullets and you can vary the weight. I also use Maxima Clear (clearwater obviously) and Maxima Chameleon (Vaal typical water) as these two are really abrasion-resistant - more so than Ultragreen, they're the same price, don't twist around leade rwhen used as droppers as much, and unlike fluorocarbon will possible only last as long as our life time prior rotting. We did a test back in Oz when fluorocarbon was in the experimental stages. In clear water, a somewhat subjective survey between about a hundred of us came to the conclusion we'd get about 30% more trout using Seaguar fluorocarbon (I think they invented the stuff) as opposed to Maxima Ultragreen. It was subjective but the difference - under those conditions - was indeed noticeable.

    So many ideas, yet so little brains...

    Cheers guys, hope some of above may have sparked a few ideas and not ire!

    thanks for the info this will help me out a hell of alot

    thanks again

    tyronne

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