Debates: "big fly=big fish"

[Chris Shelton]

Your thoughts and comments on the above please?

[KevinE]

My waters may be different from some of yours but I'll share my theory anyway.

Big dry fly = big fish. the big fish in summer tend to nymph all the time and don't rise unless it is really worth their while. So you need a big morsel to make them rise from the bottom and make the effort worthwhile. Cicada imitations on a #6 to #8 are the go. Royal Wulffs and Humpies can ge as big as #8. But this is different when fish are rising - then you need to imitate the natural, be it big or small.

Small nymph = big fish. I believe that fish inspect nymphs more thoroughly before taking them and they know what a real nymph looks like as they eat them all day. When fishing a tandem nymph rig, say a #10 and a #16, the #16 gets taken 8 times out of ten. A big nymph can be a bit garish and trout will avoid them, except in very fast water where reaction time is short.

Big streamer or woolly bugger = big fish. This is pretty obvious. If you want to ignore the small fish and traget the big ones, fish a #6 black woolly bugger in a stream at dusk. Any fish you do catch is likely to be big.

My thoughts and experiences in any case. I'm sure other people will think differently based on the waters they fish.

[phly]

I've found this is true for fish other than yellows and trout.

[ShaunF]

As far as trout go, and based on my own experience, I have to disagree with the big fly = big fish theory. Most of my largest trout have been hooked on flies #12 and smaller. In fact these days when fishing stillwaters, I hardly carry any flies larger than a #10, with the exception of a few dragonfly patterns in #8.

[Chris Shelton]

My waters may be different from some of yours but I'll share my theory anyway.

Big dry fly = big fish. the big fish in summer tend to nymph all the time and don't rise unless it is really worth their while. So you need a big morsel to make them rise from the bottom and make the effort worthwhile. Cicada imitations on a #6 to #8 are the go. Royal Wulffs and Humpies can ge as big as #8. But this is different when fish are rising - then you need to imitate the natural, be it big or small.

Small nymph = big fish. I believe that fish inspect nymphs more thoroughly before taking them and they know what a real nymph looks like as they eat them all day. When fishing a tandem nymph rig, say a #10 and a #16, the #16 gets taken 8 times out of ten. A big nymph can be a bit garish and trout will avoid them, except in very fast water where reaction time is short.

Big streamer or woolly bugger = big fish. This is pretty obvious. If you want to ignore the small fish and traget the big ones, fish a #6 black woolly bugger in a stream at dusk. Any fish you do catch is likely to be big.

My thoughts and experiences in any case. I'm sure other people will think differently based on the waters they fish.

Thanks Kevin. I think you are spot on buddy.

I think the 'big fly, big fish' (dry fly) is especially true and can be a determining factor during opportunistic feeding. Basically the big fish needs to eat, and a large morsel contains so many more calories than a small one, which makes it worth the while to expend the energy to come up for it in the first place.
One of the reasons that we tend to avoid these large gaudy flys in lower level streams is because of drag, but if this can be avoided, then i see no reason whatsoever why a large fly cannot be selected with the same loose abandon as the small fly. Personally I think too much has been made of miscule fly. All the talk seems to be along the lines of "oh, I caught mine on a #32 micro caddis", and..."I got mine on a #48".....blah blah blah! It is as if the smallest of flys have become something of a thing to boast about, and anything bigger than a #14 is frowned upon. Since when did micro dry fly fishing become an elitist sport on its own? It is as if this has become the pinnacle of dry fly fishing! Bull-sh1t is what I say!

Fish the fly that the fish want....period!

[MaXiMuM]

But Kevin, usually the size #10 is a well disguised sinker, and has no chance of natural movement. While the size #16 is un, or lightly weighted, and is designed to drift freely, looking more natural…

Secondly, the big dry only hold true in certain cases, I can’t say it works when the is a fall of size #18 spinners, and the fish are so selective that, with out the exact right pattern you might as well go sleep under a tree… however I do agree that when searching unknown water, a big RAB, White Spinner or Klinkamer (sp), are very effective, they also bring up the rats and mice. But when a big fish is spotted, targeted and fished for, then the big dry comes into its own…

My thoughts…

[honda2]

I know that this is actually a trout thread, but I had some interesting experiences at the Jonkershoek Fly Festival while targeting bass in the Laibach dam. I started off on a size 14 olive Zonker pattern and nearly caught a small bass per cast. I saw a number of larger bass and presented the fly to them as well and got two 1kg+ bass in fairly quick succession which shows that the larger fish can also be caught on the smaller pattern. A number of the larger bass did however ignore the fly flat.

However, on at least 4 occasions I caught a small bass which were swimming close to the larger fish and the excitement of the small fish swimming about caused the big fish to grab the little fish on my line. On a couple of occasions I presented the fly to the larger fish only to have it gobbled up by a smaller one. However, switching over to larger flies did not increase my catch rate for the larger fish.

Any ideas what to do in such a situation?

[Chris Shelton]

I have been refering mostly to dry fly fishing Honda. As Kevin rightly said, under the surface, quite often it is the smaller patterns that produce the goods. There are always exceptions to the norm though. That is the beauty of fishing. It is what gets us ringing the changes. If this doesn't work, then try that. If a particular small fly is not working for example, i see little point in changing to something of a similar size. Try something completely different,....different shape, different size....different colour...etc

[KevinE]

But Kevin, usually the size #10 is a well disguised sinker, and has no chance of natural movement. While the size #16 is un, or lightly weighted, and is designed to drift freely, looking more natural…

This could well be true, although (and I know I'm getting off topic here) I have at times seen a single tungsten nymph be more effective than a single lightly weighted nymph, even in relatively shallow water. I don't know why but a mate has had the same experience and thinks that the density of the tungsten slows the fly's drift down the stream and compensates for drag. A bit too technical for me.

I do agree what you say about dries and selective fish. If there are terrestrials around but no obvious fall or hatch and only spasmodic rising, I often use a big terrestrial: #8 stimulator, #10 humpy, etc. A small dry is generally a waste of time in these circumstances, especially for the big fish, which lie deeper and need a good reason to come to the surface. . But if the fish are rising regularly and have their noses at the surface and there is obviously a hatch or fall of some kind, I will usually try to imitate the natural in size and colour.