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Thread: Control Flies update.

  1. Default Control Flies update.

    I do appologise if it should appear egotistical to start a new thread but the Ultimate Control Fly thread whilst amusing isn't perhaps conducive to the conveyance of some important points related to control flies. It would seem that many people on this forum and elsewhere badly misunderstand the functioning of control flies and for that matter Czech nymphing. Which is, or at least can be a very subtle method.
    Firstly if you are not fishing competion rules why bother with a control fly at all, sure it may salve your conscience but a split shot would do as well and be a lot less expensive. When the diamonds run out the guys in Alexander Bay will be able to dredge for tungsten instead, all those beads should have reached the sea by then.

    Adding more and more beads doesn't serve a purpose, once the buoyancy of the nylon and the resistance of the current has been overcome more weight makes little or no difference to the sink and control of the flies.

    A fly with one or two or three beads has in effect the same density and therefore the same sink rate.

    You would be far better off to make the flies slimmer, use thinner nylon, cast more accurately in the seams in the river or provide more slack during the sinking phase of the cast than simply add more weight. We can discuss this more but for those who don't understand it, it is the rate of sink not the mass of the flies that makes the difference and more and more beads on a hook doesn't change that.

    Tungsten works better than lead as it is more dense, slim works better than fat as there is less resistance, thin nylon or braid works better because it catches the fast upper layers of the current less... etc, basically the rate the flies sink and the amount that they are affected by the current is what matters and the simple addition of more and more beads will not help you. It also leads to such nasty little epithets as "Chuck nymphing" Shame on you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Western Cape
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    7,613

    Default

    Yes I agree with most of what you have said. What many Vaal anglers are doing, by dragging heavy flies along the bottom, with a 3 fly rig, is not CZN'ing at all. All they are really doing ,is anything to get the fly to the bottom. Sure this may catch the odd fish, but in the context of catching fish, subsurface, using the technique of "feeling for the take", one has to get the fly to the fish by using the minimum weight possible. The more suited the technique, the tackle, the slim profile of the flies themselves, the better chance you have of firstly getting the fly down, and secondly, detecting the take. Ultra heavy flies will negate this sensitivity you need.
    I dissagree thet split shot serves as adequate a purpose as a weighted fly. The whole point, are slim, wighted flies, tied on shrimp/scud hooks, and the technique of leading the flies short, under the rod, with little or no flyline out the rod tip ( quote Czech Nymphing, by Karel Krivanec...page 12)
    The actual flies themselvs, play a major part. What most Vaal anglers are doing, to me looks closer to the American technique of "high sticking" or the very similar Irish technique of "plonking", where any flies are used, and variable weights are attached according to the requirement....ala split shot.
    I am going to get shot down for this , I know, but I can't help thinking that yellowfish are too forgiving, to allow most Vaal anglers to become good at developing the more subtle elements of Czech nymphing, like drag free drifts, subtle presentations, and quick descent casting, tucking, mending techniques. All of these are very important in czech nymphing, but are lost on the Vaal. The top Vaal guys understand this, and are therefore, of course , the top guys.
    Ask yourself this... When you catch a yellowfish "czech nymphing" have you actually thought about the cast, drift, leader and tackle setup, etc, and fused all this to the point where you have read the water, and felt the subtle touch, and lifted the rod into the fish, or has the fish merely picked up the fly and swum off with it? I think that there is a difference.

  3. #3

    Default

    I couldn't agree more. (Jussie you Cape ouks are catching on, hey...)

    I've always said heavier is NOT always better. Yes the flies must be heavy, but not TOO heavy. Slimmer profiles, and the WAY you fish the flies are far more important. I normally have one heavy control fly...but it's only one 4mm tungsten (or even lead or brass sometimes) and one full turn of .15 lead around the shank. That's it. If you cannot get THAT fly to the bottom, you are not fishing it correctly.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Parys, Free State
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    10,023

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andre View Post
    Yes I agree with most of what you have said. What many Vaal anglers are doing, by dragging heavy flies along the bottom, with a 3 fly rig, is not CZN'ing at all. All they are really doing ,is anything to get the fly to the bottom. Sure this may catch the odd fish, but in the context of catching fish, subsurface, using the technique of "feeling for the take", one has to get the fly to the fish by using the minimum weight possible. The more suited the technique, the tackle, the slim profile of the flies themselves, the better chance you have of firstly getting the fly down, and secondly, detecting the take. Ultra heavy flies will negate this sensitivity you need.
    I dissagree thet split shot serves as adequate a purpose as a weighted fly. The whole point, are slim, wighted flies, tied on shrimp/scud hooks, and the technique of leading the flies short, under the rod, with little or no flyline out the rod tip ( quote Czech Nymphing, by Karel Krivanec...page 12)
    The actual flies themselvs, play a major part. What most Vaal anglers are doing, to me looks closer to the American technique of "high sticking" or the very similar Irish technique of "plonking", where any flies are used, and variable weights are attached according to the requirement....ala split shot.
    I am going to get shot down for this , I know, but I can't help thinking that yellowfish are too forgiving, to allow most Vaal anglers to become good at developing the more subtle elements of Czech nymphing, like drag free drifts, subtle presentations, and quick descent casting, tucking, mending techniques. All of these are very important in czech nymphing, but are lost on the Vaal. The top Vaal guys understand this, and are therefore, of course , the top guys.
    Ask yourself this... When you catch a yellowfish "czech nymphing" have you actually thought about the cast, drift, leader and tackle setup, etc, and fused all this to the point where you have read the water, and felt the subtle touch, and lifted the rod into the fish, or has the fish merely picked up the fly and swum off with it? I think that there is a difference.
    Another interesting piece of info I got from the book is that tapered leaders or constantly decreasing diameters is a thing of the past,guys nowadays prefer using single diameter mono.

    G
    Last edited by Gerrit Viljoen; 12-02-08 at 10:22 PM.
    Gerrit Viljoen

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gerrit View Post
    Another interesting piece of info I got from the book is that tapered leaders or constantly decreasing diameters is a thing of the past,guys nowadays prefer using single diameter mono.

    G
    Correct...I use a single piece of 5.5kg maxima ultragreen, for CZN and indicator fishing. Less bulk, and no knots to add to the drag. Could even step down to 4.5kg Maxima, or even 2X and 3x all the way. The thinner the mono (and no knots etc) equals a little less drag.
    A fly that is too heavy actually impedes your fishing in my opinion...they drag unnaturally slow on the bottom, and they affect your other flies' presentations negatively.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Parys, Free State
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Correct...I use a single piece of 5.5kg maxima ultragreen, for CZN and indicator fishing. Less bulk, and no knots to add to the drag. Could even step down to 4.5kg Maxima, or even 2X and 3x all the way. The thinner the mono (and no knots etc) equals a little less drag.
    A fly that is too heavy actually impedes your fishing in my opinion...they drag unnaturally slow on the bottom, and they affect your other flies' presentations negatively.

    Ok and how do U prever tying on your droppers?

    G
    Gerrit Viljoen

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrit View Post
    Ok and how do U prever tying on your droppers?

    G
    Either use "mini tippet rings"...or just join two 40cm sections of 3X tippet to the 5.5kg maxima with Albright knots, or three turn water knots (making two joining knots in your setup where the flies go), and then take two pieces of 4X or 3X tippet, and connect them to the front of the knots with a loop knot (so they cannot slide down any further). These "dropper" sections are about 15 - 20 cm long. The third (or last) fly obviously get's connected straight to the last piece of 3X or 4X tippet.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Parys, Free State
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Either use "mini tippet rings"...or just join two 40cm sections of 3X tippet to the 5.5kg maxima with Albright knots, or three turn water knots (making two joining knots in your setup where the flies go), and then take two pieces of 4X or 3X tippet, and connect them to the front of the knots with a loop knot (so they cannot slide down any further). These "dropper" sections are about 15 - 20 cm long. The third (or last) fly obviously get's connected straight to the last piece of 3X or 4X tippet.

    Thanx for the info Mike

    G
    Gerrit Viljoen

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gerrit View Post
    Thanx for the info Mike

    G
    Yeah, but it's still difficult to explain...this kind of thing is best viewed in real life, and explained and demonstrated while fishing. We should hook up sometime!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Yeah, but it's still difficult to explain...this kind of thing is best viewed in real life, and explained and demonstrated while fishing. We should hook up sometime!
    Yes we should def.

    I'm happy with my set up but if I can improve obviously I will.

    My setup produces fish and that's all that matters to me at this stage of the game.

    G
    Gerrit Viljoen

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