Middelbek

**Gerrit Viljoen** · 08-10-08

Hi dudes,

WTF is a Middelbek?Apparantly it's some sort of inbreed between sm yellows and LM Yellows.

Care to elighten this monkey

Cheers
G

**C J** · 08-10-08

Originally Posted by gerrit

Hi dudes,

WTF is a Middelbek?Apparantly it's some sort of inbreed between sm yellows and LM Yellows.

Care to elighten this monkey

Cheers
G

Ek dink hulle praat van 'n Moggel......en wat okal jy gehoor het is 'n k@k storie!

**Gerrit Viljoen** · 08-10-08

Originally Posted by C J

Ek dink hulle praat van 'n Moggel......en wat okal jy gehoor het is 'n k@k storie!

Maybe I heard wrong but I don't think it's a Moggel.

G

**Korrie** · 08-10-08

In the general trend of inbreeding.
A moggel is a specie on their own.
There was a study in the middle 1980's by N van Vuuren, at RAU, where they found genetic material (DNA), where some of the Mudfish and SM did breed.
This created a Moggel. (almost like mules from a horse and a donkey)

Not to sure if the off spring where fertile. But it did happen.
If anyone is interested I can dig it up.

**Scythe** · 08-10-08

Ag you kids are all on drugs, especially you CJ, we've caught a number of them.

Middelbekke are found in the Vaal river as well as in other Stillwaters. I've personally caught a LargeMouth that could not be classified as either a LargeMouth or a SmallMouth near Bloemhof dam. Some of my fishing buds have caught them as far down as Douglas and as high up as Boskop dam. There are also documented cases in Taung.

Now you have to remember that the Mooi river is essentially no longer linked to the Vaal due to excessive water usage between Potch and the old inflow into the Vaal. There are sections where it no longer flows, so you have isolated populations of fish in the river and boskop, which is fed by pump water from mines North(ish) of Potch.

Here are some first hand facts:

They look nothing like moggels, they also don't stink like moggels.
They look nothing like muddies, they also don't squeak like muddies.
They DO look like SmallMouth in terms of body and mouth.
They DO look like LargeMouth in terms of head, mouth and other characteristics.
They box harder than either of the species combined.

(Well that is just my subjective view on it)

As no genetic studies have been completed on them specifically (AFAIK) nobody really knows if it's a hybridisation or if it's just a mutation like the Rubberlips. Also nobody knows wether for example the Rubberlips is a different sub species or just a recessive gene that is activated after birth by a specific preference for food & foraging or wether it's triggered by some genetic precursor prior to birth. (Catch a lot of juvenile SmallMouth and you will see they all have the same mouth design, the rubberlips mutation only sets in later)

Fact is, nobody really knows and it's only one of the many reasons why a moratorium was placed on the translocation of YellowFishes.

I'll take some pictures of them this weekend, providing this weather doesn't screw us around and providing we can actually catch a few.

**C J** · 08-10-08

Originally Posted by dizzy

Nope, there was a rumour of such a fish a few months back.
Not sure that it was proven though. Actually think the mix was between a SM and a muddy.

Moggel....yes, but a "middlebek".....no. I also heard this "middlebek" storie! I think its rubbish.

**C J** · 08-10-08

Originally Posted by Scythe

Ag you kids are all on drugs, especially you CJ, we've caught a number of them.

Middelbekke are found in the Vaal river as well as in other Stillwaters. I've personally caught a LargeMouth that could not be classified as either a LargeMouth or a SmallMouth near Bloemhof dam. Some of my fishing buds have caught them as far down as Douglas and as high up as Boskop dam. There are also documented cases in Taung.

Now you have to remember that the Mooi river is essentially no longer linked to the Vaal due to excessive water usage between Potch and the old inflow into the Vaal. There are sections where it no longer flows, so you have isolated populations of fish in the river and boskop, which is fed by pump water from mines North(ish) of Potch.

Here are some first hand facts:

They look nothing like moggels, they also don't stink like moggels.
They look nothing like muddies, they also don't squeak like muddies.
They DO look like SmallMouth in terms of body and mouth.
They DO look like LargeMouth in terms of head, mouth and other characteristics.
They box harder than either of the species combined.

(Well that is just my subjective view on it)

As no genetic studies have been completed on them specifically (AFAIK) nobody really knows if it's a hybridisation or if it's just a mutation like the Rubberlips. Also nobody knows wether for example the Rubberlips is a different sub species or just a recessive gene that is activated after birth by a specific preference for food & foraging or wether it's triggered by some genetic precursor prior to birth. (Catch a lot of juvenile SmallMouth and you will see they all have the same mouth design, the rubberlips mutation only sets in later)

Fact is, nobody really knows and it's only one of the many reasons why a moratorium was placed on the translocation of YellowFishes.

I'll take some pictures of them this weekend, providing this weather doesn't screw us around and providing we can actually catch a few.

Luister ou maat!!!....die storie wat ek gehoor het het aangedui dat daai ding lyk soos 'n baber met skubbe.....nou se vir my...klink daai nie vir jou soos stront praat nie!? Ek dink mens moet op drugs wees om dit te glo. Ek het dit gehoor by 'n klomp pap gooiers......teveel muti snuif as jy my vra!!!

**smallstreams.co.za** · 08-10-08

Middelbek?? Sit die bek tussen Pectoral en die Pelvic fin? Onderstebo vliegies sal goed werk!!

**Garage** · 08-10-08

Scythe,

As a matter of interest, by far most of the baby smallies in the Orange that I and my fishing buddies have caught have rubberlips. We very rarely see the classic Vaal smallie of any size.