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Thread: Long rod vs Short rod ?

  1. #1

    Default Long rod vs Short rod ?

    I have always been a fan of longer (8 foot and above) rods for stream fishing. They allow better line control and better drag control by way of highsticking. This weekend I fished my Flytalk prize on the Holsloot. The prize was supposed to be a 5wt Vision 3 zone but I managed to talk Sean into giving me the 2wt 6'6" Vision 3zone. I had fished it briefly a couple of weeks ago but with a 2wt line and wasn't really impressed with it. Yesterday I fished it with a old 3wt Rio Pocketwater line and the rod was transformed. The biggest advantage with this rod is accuracy of casts. I am not the greatest caster but can usually get my fly roughly where I want it and occasionally catch a fish. This little rod makes very accurate casts ! It also roll casts extremely well.

    The second thing I found is that it handles the wind very well. With a strong wind blowing downstream, I still managed to fish a poodle RAB on a longish (10ft) leader, something which is not really possible when fishing a longer rod.

    Finally it's one weakness which is length for highsticking, got me thinking about how I control drag. In general I highstick to control drag which works very well but has made me lazy. With this little rod I suddenly had to start casting properly to avoid drag. Casting over rocks and to the side out of currents, slack line casts etc.

    Over the next couple of months I see myself using it more and more.

    Your thoughts ?
    “Apparently people don't like the truth, but I do like it; I like it because it upsets a lot of people. If you show them enough times that their arguments are bullshit, then maybe just once, one of them will say, 'Oh! Wait a minute - I was wrong.' I live for that happening. Rare, I assure you” ― Lemmy Kilmister

    Reap the Whirlwind - WM

    Paradise = A 3wt Rod & a fist full of someone else's #32 parachutes

  2. #2
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    Another satisfied vision customer. Can't say I'm surprised by that.

    Darryl as you know I fished with a 9ft rod for the 1st time yesterday and like I said, I can fully see the advantages of the extra length, especially the ease of high sticking and also my line control on the water was a lot better. I was able to make small adjustment mends a lot easier than i could with my usual 7'6" rods. My problem was that I was getting too close to pockets before casting and had to back away a bit before casting but it only takes some getting used to to get that right and I guess that can only be an advantage (ie you are staying slightly further away from the fish).

    I am not sure how easily I would handle with the extra length on bushed up sections on the holsloot and probably a short 6'6" would be better. My 7'6" rods are sometimes a bit long for those sections already.

    I guess you need both. YAY for all us wreckless spenders!
    "So here’s my point. Don’t go and get your ego all out of proportion because you can tie a fly and catch a fish that’s dumb enough to eat a car key.." - Louis Cahill - Gink and Gasoline

  3. #3
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    I like a 10ft for big rivers, a 9ft for medium rivers and an 8 1/2 ft for smaller streams. I don't like to go much below that as I fell that I lack control of the line on the water.

    However, over the Christmas break I spent some time poking around a little stream that was full of big browns. The only trouble is that the stream is very overgrown in places and a very short stick would be just the ticket. 6ft or under would be good. But the rod would need some serious backbone to horse the fish away from cover once hooked. I wonder if I can get a 6wt or heavier under 6ft? Perhaps an old fiberglass rod would do the trick.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gkieser View Post
    Another satisfied vision customer. Can't say I'm surprised by that.
    Geez Grant, are these guys sponsoring you or something

    Quote Originally Posted by gkieser View Post
    Darryl as you know I fished with a 9ft rod for the 1st time yesterday and like I said, I can fully see the advantages of the extra length, especially the ease of high sticking and also my line control on the water was a lot better. I was able to make small adjustment mends a lot easier than i could with my usual 7'6" rods. My problem was that I was getting too close to pockets before casting and had to back away a bit before casting but it only takes some getting used to to get that right and I guess that can only be an advantage (ie you are staying slightly further away from the fish).
    Yup, I had the opposite problem - I would position myself to fish a lip current with my 8'6" in mind and find that I was too far away to prevent drag. 2 foot is a big difference !

    I see myself mainly using this rod on the Holsloot, Smalblaar 6, Lourens and a couple of other small streams. Yesterday afternoon when I fished the Hotel Beat it was nice to haul out the triplet - the finesse of this little rod still amazes me.

    Rgds,
    D
    “Apparently people don't like the truth, but I do like it; I like it because it upsets a lot of people. If you show them enough times that their arguments are bullshit, then maybe just once, one of them will say, 'Oh! Wait a minute - I was wrong.' I live for that happening. Rare, I assure you” ― Lemmy Kilmister

    Reap the Whirlwind - WM

    Paradise = A 3wt Rod & a fist full of someone else's #32 parachutes

  5. #5
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    Interesting Darryl, especially comming from someone who I thought was going lighter and lighter. Let me relate my experience for what it is worth. This season is the first season I have fished the streams with anything else other than my Sage TXL 2wt 7ft. Early this season I got a new Sage Z-axis 3wt 9ft. Everything you have said about the Vision is true for the Sage, except the timing of the strike. I find that with the faster 3wt, you have to delay a fraction longer before setting the hook, as it is quite easy to bounce the fish off if you behave exactly as you would with a slower shorter, lighter rod. I have found that the Z-Axis behaves better with a longer leader, of about 12 ft, wheras the TXL 2wt struggled with a leader this long. Also, 7x and 8x tippets are less vulnerable when the leader is longer and you slow down the strike. The main advantage of the longer 3 wt is as you say, line control, and drag free drifts, but also the ability to accurately place the fly into difficult positions. If I wer to be in a position where it was a one cast opportunity, I would certinly without hesitation, choose the longer 3wt rod.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlampert View Post
    Geez Grant, are these guys sponsoring you or something
    I wish! They just have such nice stuff.
    "So here’s my point. Don’t go and get your ego all out of proportion because you can tie a fly and catch a fish that’s dumb enough to eat a car key.." - Louis Cahill - Gink and Gasoline

  7. #7
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    MMmm... I like this topic, makes up for all the crap I have to read to get to a decent post...

    So long or short?????

    When I decide on a new stick it has to fit a fishing condition, not just line weight, it also includes length, action and shock absorption properties. I shall try to break it down.

    What Fish is being targeted? What presentation is required? What flies, leader and tippet will be used? What conditions will the rod be required to cast in? Let’s look at Sterkies, large strong fish, exact penetration at any distance, small flies, long leaders and light tippets. And lastly, this is where the wind pumps… My choice of stick is a Scott 5w 8’6” Alpha, it has a progressive action, lots of shock absorption, but can still layout a long line with exact presentation. It would have been the Sage 4w SPL, but I didn’t like that stick on the Vaal, and since my sticks have to be useable in other conditions, this is also a factor.

    But since the thread is about Long or Short, why did I go for the 8 foot 6 inch version?? When I cast the 8’6 against the 9’, I found the shorter stick to be more accurate, present better under windy conditions, and with the shorter length, allowed me to cast tight loops into “Hurricane Hilder”, while still presenting a small fly beautifully. But still offering the tippet protection required on that water.

    Having said that, Kietzman and I have an ongoing debate about the benefits of length on tiny trout streams in the Berg… it goes along the lines of the 8’ manages the line better, but the 7’7 casts and presents better. Mending and managing the line is a skill, that is assisted and aided by the stick, but can be achieved with practice, but better presentation can be about the stick. The T&T 8’ 2W LPS versus the Scott 7’7 3W G series… it’s a debate that can last 8 hours, all the way from his house to grandpa’s pub…

    Hope I haven’t waffled on too much, but at the end of the day, each condition can have it’s ideal stick, its up to the user to chose the right one, or to make the one he has work for the conditions. I have short ones and long ones…
    Mike McKeown

    You're either fishing or waiting...

  8. #8
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    Default TFO shortie

    After casting Darryl's 6'6 Vision on the Holsloot this weekend, I am definitely convinced of the merits of having 2 stream sticks. One around the 6'0 or 6'6 length, and the other around the 8'6 or 9'0 length.

    I saw that TFO make a 6'0 2wt rod in their Signature series (2-piece). I'd be interested to hear if anyone here has cast it, and what their opinion is, especially compared to the Vision 6'6.
    Last edited by ebf; 20-02-07 at 08:04 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXiMuM View Post
    ...each condition can have it’s ideal stick…
    Mike, I am printing your reply and showing it to the swambo to try and justify why I need the 9ft LPS and the 6ft Marksman. What chance d'you reckon I got?
    "So here’s my point. Don’t go and get your ego all out of proportion because you can tie a fly and catch a fish that’s dumb enough to eat a car key.." - Louis Cahill - Gink and Gasoline

  10. #10
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    Well it is my reply, pretty good... please don't forget that my comments are here to help, some times to help me, so if you pull it off, I expect that little Scott 1W F serries or that little Loomis Stream Dance 2W...
    Mike McKeown

    You're either fishing or waiting...

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