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Thread: Medium, medium-fast and Fast 1990 vs 2012

  1. #11
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    Based on the material and action contributions, could we postulate that a 2012 medium action rod, built with modern materials could feel the same as a 1990 fast action rod?
    Korrie Broos

    Don't go knocking on Death's door, ring the bell and run like hell. He hates it. (anon)
    Nymphing, adds depth to your fly fishing.
    Nymphing, is fly fishing in another dimension

  2. #12
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    Andre,

    I don't understand your post. You're an idiot for buying a rod based on action but in the very next sentence it's all well and good to be an idiot? If you've never fished for LM Yellows (for example) before and would like to buy a rod how would you decide which rod is best suitable? Based on action (the idiots), suitability, technology, opinions from other anglers who's done it before, or what else? My question is how can or do you determine suitability? I'm confused so I can just imagine how Pietie who want's to catch a big mouf too, must feel after reading your post.
    Last edited by Gerrit Viljoen; 28-06-12 at 03:03 PM.

  3. #13
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    I like being an "idiot"
    ".....angling is a sport that requires as much enthusiasm as poetry, as much patience as mathematics and as much caution as housbreaking". - James Rennie 1883

  4. #14
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    Korrie, I have 3 rods from that era:

    An Orvis Far & Fine, rated for a 5wt that works better with a 4. The action is not too dissimilar to the bamboo 3wt Mario built me
    An Orvis 6wt, rated as fast at the time, now quite a bit slower than the fast tapers
    An Orvis 8wt (I think it's a PM10) rated as super-fast. This thing is just a club. Really crappy taper.

    I think the development over the past two decades has been around far more refined tapers, not just how fast the rod is. BTW, I still fish the Far & Fine & the 6wt occasionally.
    Last edited by muddler; 28-06-12 at 03:19 PM.
    Mike Mitchley

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkK View Post
    This issue about rod actions is so widely misunderstood that even within the trade there's uncertainty about terms and definitions. My understanding is that the action (described as extra fast, fast or whatever else) refers to where the blank deflects or flexes, not to how much force is required to flex it. Nowadays, with several different resins and graphites to work with, the issue of blank recovery rate has also come into play, and to confuse matters this is also termed as fast, slow or something inbetween. The power or stiffness of a blank refers to how much force is required to flex it, and this is where line ratings come into it, with an accepted range specified for each "weight." It is true that some blanks are stiffer or more powerful than the line rating suggests, but this is not to be confused with fast- or extra-fast actions, even though most of these "poles" also happen to be fast-actioned. Make sense? Guess not!
    Makes sense to me. I think there are only 3 main characteristics of a fly rod that define their performance:
    * Stiffness / Power. this is a measure of how much weight is required to bend the rod
    * Action. This is a measure of where the rod bends, i.e more tip or more butt.
    * Recovery rate. This is a measure of how long it takes the rod to straighten.

    In olders rods:
    Stiffness: They are often less stiff than newer rods for their marked line rating. That's why your old 5 wt feels better with a 4 line these days.
    Action: Older rods typically bend deeper than newer rods.
    Recovery Rate: Older materials don't have the same recovery rate as the latest high modulus graphite.

    I have found myself myself moving to more medium action rods in the past few years. Much more relaxing. Today's medium action rods are a pleasure, they still have a fast recovery rate so feel good in hand, can't light a cigarette on the back cast anymore.
    Life is a series of trout missions with that numbing feeling in between...

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  6. #16
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    when Simon Gawesforth was in SA, awhile back, one of the topics in terms of the lines and modern rods, was discussed.
    The fly line manufacturers are also re-desinging lines for the modern rods.

    Could the new "modern re-designed lines" be the reason why the older #5 rod works better with a modern #4 line?

    as Bob Dylan said "times are a changing" or to quote Harold McMillan "the wind of change is blowing"
    Korrie Broos

    Don't go knocking on Death's door, ring the bell and run like hell. He hates it. (anon)
    Nymphing, adds depth to your fly fishing.
    Nymphing, is fly fishing in another dimension

  7. #17
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    This is something that has always boggled my mind.Reason being that i have cast what is classified as a fast action 9wt only to let it feel med to maybe med/fast,but, fast in my hands with my style is way different to anyone else.I am no guru but i can hold my own when it comes to distance casting and i only look at fast action rods because thats my style,but i also look at one that suites me as the rods all differ,either in overall weight,stiffness (not action) recovery etc.
    I also find medium action rods tend to fish "heavier",more so on higher rod weights.I think this is also due to the wider flex of the rod when lifting long lines off the water,hence a fast action and stiffer action rod does this a tad easier and more comfortable for a whole day of fishing.
    I think action should be looked at when buying a rod but the "fishing application" factor should always be considered.
    Explorer might rate their Guide rod as fast,but compared to a Gloomis fast action its not even close,but I think this explains the other factors about tapers,blank stiffness and lighter materials.
    ???

  8. #18
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    I had an interesting experience over the weekend.
    Casted a 15/20 year old Scott, that was the CUTTING edge way back then.

    What a difference.
    Had to slow down the casting stroke etc.
    But it still had the mojo.
    Korrie Broos

    Don't go knocking on Death's door, ring the bell and run like hell. He hates it. (anon)
    Nymphing, adds depth to your fly fishing.
    Nymphing, is fly fishing in another dimension

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korrie View Post
    I had an interesting experience over the weekend.
    Casted a 15/20 year old Scott, that was the CUTTING edge way back then.

    What a difference.
    Had to slow down the casting stroke etc.
    But it still had the mojo.
    One of my favourite rods is a 2piece Scott SAS. It's easily pushing the 15yr mark. When I take it out after fishing with the much newer x2s, it doesn't come close in either recovery or speed. However, as Korrie says, it still has that mojo. I just have to adjust my casting to get the best out of it.

    The modern rods with their different materials, processes, tapers, etc are going to get faster, stronger and recover quicker - the same has happened in every sport (titanium hockey sticks were banned because keepers where getting their hands broken through their gloves because the ball could be hit so much harder). Its inevitable. Can we really compare those first graphite rods to today's graphite rods? If we do they are going to flunder a bit!

    Your style also has a lot to do with the rod choose (I may be getting off topic here) - this is also true for surfing and the board you ride or cricket and the weight and length of bat you play with, etc. Some guy's attitudes just suit the feel of a slow action cane or glass rod while others struggle to deal with the mellow vibe one of these rods require for you to cast well with them.

    And then there's application - a rod needs to suit what you're fishing for and the conditions. I'd never want to hit the flats in chase of GTs with a slow action rod. When casts need to be made accurately and in a split second (often into the wind) I can't afford to enjoy the slow loading pleasure that cane or glass gives. Even now, with the SE pumping across the islands, I'd rather fish the #7 x2s on the flats than my older #9 SAS - it performs better in the given conditions. And on the flip side, I adore the feel of glass when taking my time casting to a trout sipping at the head of a stream and will fish fibre in these conditions whenever possible.

    Every variable has a combination.... Rod, line, fisherman's style and application. And that's why as one spends more and time on the water, so your collection of one or two fly rods grows into a bristling array of glass, cane, boron and graphite. Often unneeded because you can get away with just two or three rods but as you and I know; we can't help ourselves when it comes to improving our chances!

  10. #20
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    With you on that Fred.

    To me the S4 is ticks every box, and if I had to pick one make and model for an 8/10/12 that would be it....but you and I share the same view on the SAS. Its the rod that made me fall in love with the salt (a 9wt 2 piece matched with that old cortland tropics inter) and I think that bit of character adds something to the experience. In the same way tying your own fly does as opposed to a bought one. Its like fishing with an old friend. You trust its response and you know how its going to react before you even reach for the haul. It may not be as perfect or good as something new but your history together makes it special. Theres that section in the Felt Soul vid of behind the scenes at Scott where the builder talks about the guy that "retired" his rod. It didnt need to be fixed, it had served its purpose and he was happy to finally put it down.

    There are three other "older" blanks I love.... The Fenwick Star Richardson Tarpon Special Boron (ok thats WAY back), Stealth X-treme and the Sage Xi2 (ok that ones not that old). Boron has such a great feel to it.
    "If you dont have almost unlimited patience, forget about becoming an accomplished saltwater fly angler" Jack Samson

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