The use of a foregrip on heavy rods?

[srt007]

Hi Guys,

I've read a few posts about foregrips on 10wt, 11wt and 12wt rods, and that people use it for extra lifting power, but that's not what it's for. So what exactly is it for?

More for support? Or resting your other hand?

I always thought its for lifting fish from the deep offshore, but from what I've read that's incorrect.

Can someone be so kind to enlighten me on the subject?

Thanks
Shawn

[garyatstealth]

i agree with you its not for lifting but is supposed to be a hand rest/support.

In our opinion it has lead to more rod breakages because owners tend to place all pulling or lifting on that grip. in effect turning a 9ft rod into a 7ft rod and not using the thickest thus the strongest part of a blank.
We have followed Scott flyrod opinion on this one and don't do assists grips
except on our Extreme rod. Which is a composite -power lifting rod.And even then they are only available in 12,14,15wts.

[smallstreams.co.za]

i agree with you its not for lifting but is supposed to be a hand rest/support.

In our opinion it has lead to more rod breakages because owners tend to place all pulling or lifting on that grip. in effect turning a 9ft rod into a 7ft rod and not using the thickest thus the strongest part of a blank.
We have followed Scott flyrod opinion on this one and don't do assists grips
except on our Extreme rod. Which is a composite -power lifting rod. And even then they are only available in 12,14,15wts.

Iow Gary, the blanks that carry the foregrips where designed to accommodate them??

[srt007]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Gary

Shawn

[srt007]

Iow Gary, the blanks that carry the foregrips where designed to accommodate them??

I'll check if the blank I received can in fact take a foregrip. Was suppose to be the kit with the foregrip. Will check where the rod label is, that will tell me if it's actually the one designed for a foregrip or not, the label will sit higher up the blank if I look at the website between the two 12wt's...

[smallstreams.co.za]

I'll check if the blank I received can in fact take a foregrip. Was suppose to be the kit with the foregrip. Will check where the rod label is, that will tell me if it's actually the one designed for a foregrip or not, the label will sit higher up the blank if I look at the website between the two 12wt's...

Yip, that's the difference between the two:1290-4 Xi2 (http://javascript<b></b>:showDetail('51','83803');) and 1291-4 Xi2 (http://javascript<b></b>:showDetail('52','83803');)

The one blank does differ from the other, according to Maria as well.

[srt007]

Yip, that's the difference between the two:1290-4 Xi2 (http://javascript<b></b>:showDetail('51','83803');) and 1291-4 Xi2 (http://javascript<b></b>:showDetail('52','83803');)

The one blank does differ from the other, according to Maria as well.

No train smash if it's the 1291-4, but was told that it's the 1290-4. Think the label does sit high on the blank, but will check again when I get home

Thanks guys

[garyatstealth]

Iow Gary, the blanks that carry the foregrips where designed to accommodate them??

i would like to think that but we did see was that one of the Big names bring out their saltwater rods with assist grips and all the "copiers" then piled in.

Thus it became a Myth that when told enough times becomes true. The big name probably reinforced the blank to handle the pulling.
Generally rods are designed to be fished across 2 planes. the horizontal i.e flats, beach and then vertical jigging etc. Flyrods are designed to be fished on the flats they generally don't have the lifting power of vertical rods.
What then happens is that guys hands tend to move up the blanks to get better lift and then oops it broke or (its a k*k rod because it broke)

imho don't use the assist grip!

[MCC]

Interesting topic this.

I am 100% in support of the second grip on virtually any rod from an eight weight and up and I have never had any saltwater stick break because of pulling hard on the second grip.

When fishing offshore with heavy sticks the second grip becomes mandatory.

Try pulling even on a 5kg Bonnie on an eight weight without a second grip and you will very quickly slide the second hand onto the blank. By using only the casting grip your wrists take all the strain and landing any fish becomes a tiring experience. In serious structure with a serious fish attached to the business end, it is also impossible to exert sufficient power by only holding the casting grip - It can simply not be done and if you try you will lose every big GT hooked amongst the bricks.

It is important to not place the second grip too far up the blank and as a general rule I want about four fingers' distance between the casting grip and second grip.

My 2c
Cheers
MC

[smallstreams.co.za]

Interesting topic this.

I am 100% in support of the second grip on virtually any rod from an eight weight and up and I have never had any saltwater stick break because of pulling hard on the second grip.

When fishing offshore with heavy sticks the second grip becomes mandatory.

Try pulling even on a 5kg Bonnie on an eight weight without a second grip and you will very quickly slide the second hand onto the blank. By using only the casting grip your wrists take all the strain and landing any fish becomes a tiring experience. In serious structure with a serious fish attached to the business end, it is also impossible to exert sufficient power by only holding the casting grip - It can simply not be done and if you try you will lose every big GT hooked amongst the bricks.

It is important to not place the second grip too far up the blank and as a general rule I want about four fingers' distance between the casting grip and second grip.

My 2c
Cheers
MC

MC, the problem is that (as Gary said), many manufacturers followed suit and placed the extra grip on the rod without changing the blank dynamics.

In the case of the rod srt007 is talking about, the double-handed model's blank is designed to accommodate the higher grip.

[HolyGT]

Hi Guys,

I've read a few posts about foregrips on 10wt, 11wt and 12wt rods, and that people use it for extra lifting power, but that's not what it's for. So what exactly is it for?

More for support? Or resting your other hand?

I always thought its for lifting fish from the deep offshore, but from what I've read that's incorrect.

Can someone be so kind to enlighten me on the subject?

Thanks
Shawn
Hi Shawn, you can really get into a BIG discussion re this. My view...

I consider assist grips purely there for added leverage in lifting fish vertically.
Saying that it would also mean that by utilizing a fore grip, allows you to shorter the rod as well as the lever action of the rod allowing you to lift more weight. Given though that the blank has got enough strength in the butt :D and backbone to support the weight you are lifting. This makes sense on shorter rods like 8ft and shorter.

On the flats or rock surf environment you will lose a lot of the pulling power and lifting power by utilizing a fore grip, even if you pull sideways and move the rod beyond the 45' angle. I prefer to use on heavier fish a short pull stroke form flat or 0' to about 45'.

So in nutshell; I don't own any rods from 12wt down with fore grips. I have them on rods from 12/13 upwards but only really use them on 15wt and 16/17wt.

But I am sure depending on your personal fishing style and the way you fight a fish you might want a fore grip to relax during the fight while you light a Camel.:D

So probably different horses for different courses. Not to mention experience and preference.

[srt007]

But I am sure depending on your personal fishing style and the way you fight a fish you might want a fore grip to relax during the fight while you light a Camel.:D


I actually moved my hand onto the rod yesterday to light a Camel while fighting a nice size barbel on a 6wt... :)

[srt007]

When fishing offshore with heavy sticks the second grip becomes mandatory.



Thanks MC, now I just hope the blank is the one for the foregrip as I did not receive it with the kit... think it got "lost" as the box was opened up when I received it and everything loose inside, could easily have slipped out, it's a wonder nothing else is missing from the kit

[schmoose]

I have just been viewing some videos of some guys hooking into some GT's using rods without foregrips, and all of them ended up with their rods pointed directly at the fish with the reels drag taking all the strain.

Perhaps I'm wrong here in terms of hooking a monster, but i've always been told to "KEEP THE ROD UP",which (im assuming here), when you're drags on full and you're into a monster is nearly impossible with the leverage the casting grip gives you.

Now had these guys been using a foregrip im sure their rods would have been pointed in the right direction.

[smallstreams.co.za]

To clarify this - from Chris Anderson, Sales Manager of Sage:

"Hi Mario,


Exactly the same blank, only the screen print is located higher on the 1290 blank to accommodate the fore grip. Bottom line, some folks like having the fore grip and some do not, so we make them both ways. Personally, If I am going to be lifting on big game species, I prefer the fore grip, for a couple of reasons. One, it gives the angler a "safe" place to lift ( down low ) without getting their hands too high on the blank, creating a leverage point and potentially breaking the rod. Secondly, it is much more comfortable than lifting on the blank itself without the fore grip. So to answer your question, the fore grip is indeed meant for lifting and not for additional stability or looks. There is a misconception out there that the fore grip reduces rod flex and adds weight, etc..., but in reality the fore grip is very thin, it flexes with the blank and the weight is so negligible that is definitely not worth worrying about. All that said, I prefer the looks of the 1291-4 no fore grip, I guess it's all personal preference. I believe that type of rod is more often broken by pulling at improper angles ( often the case with two handers ) and often by being pulled down ( quick surge by the fish ) on the edge of the boat ( also creating a leverage point ). Anyway, Mario, that's my two cents worth, I hope that helps and please do not ever hesitate to drop me a line if you have further questions or comments. Have a great weekend!


Best regards,


Chris Andersen
Sales Manager
Sage Manufacturing
8500 NE Day Road
Bainbridge Island, WA 98110
[/EMAIL]
206-780-8706



From: Repair Dept
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:27 PM
To: Chris Andersen
Subject: FW: 1290-4 Xi2


Virginia McCullough
Customer Service Representative
Sage Repair Department


Sage Manufacturing
8500 NE Day Road
Bainbridge Island, WA. 98110
USA


Toll Free: 1-888-848-7243
Phone: 1-206-780-8798
Fax: 1-206-780-8796


Email: [EMAIL="repair@sageflyfish.com"]repair@sageflyfish.com (candersen@sageflyfish.com)
Website: www.sageflyfish.com (http://www.sageflyfish.com/)"


There you have it ...

[srt007]

Thanks Mario,

So would a foregrip be necessary to land something like this...

(12wt to light I think...)
Sorry about the dead fish, could not find another...

[smallstreams.co.za]

Thanks Mario,

So would a foregrip be necessary to land something like this...

(12wt to light I think...)
Sorry about the dead fish, could not find another...

A pair of new shorts would be necessary to land something like that!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Btw, my wife said the butt-section of the Xi2 looks like a nice rod-tube for my #00 :D :D :D

[srt007]

A pair of new shorts would be necessary to land something like that!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Btw, my wife said the butt-section of the Xi2 looks like a nice rod-tube for my #00 :D :D :D

LOL, very funny Mario :D

[HolyGT]

I have just been viewing some videos of some guys hooking into some GT's using rods without foregrips, and all of them ended up with their rods pointed directly at the fish with the reels drag taking all the strain.

Perhaps I'm wrong here in terms of hooking a monster, but i've always been told to "KEEP THE ROD UP",which (im assuming here), when you're drags on full and you're into a monster is nearly impossible with the leverage the casting grip gives you.

Now had these guys been using a foregrip im sure their rods would have been pointed in the right direction.

See my post earlier re this...

With keeping the rod up your are correct, but "up" will probably be between 0 and 45 degrees. With a strong drag as well as palming a big fish on the run with pressure and hanging on to the foregrip on an elevated rod will mean a rod in at least 2 seperate pieces and probably a lost fish.

By exerting max drag of probably about 10kg, and if your are using a foregrip and have the rod close to 90 degees, there is a very good chance of breakage.

Fishing for GT on the flats the weakest link is probably the rod in a vertical plane, the rest will all break on min of 20kg depending on set-up.

[srt007]

I have just been viewing some videos of some guys hooking into some GT's using rods without foregrips, and all of them ended up with their rods pointed directly at the fish with the reels drag taking all the strain.

Perhaps I'm wrong here in terms of hooking a monster, but i've always been told to "KEEP THE ROD UP",which (im assuming here), when you're drags on full and you're into a monster is nearly impossible with the leverage the casting grip gives you.

Now had these guys been using a foregrip im sure their rods would have been pointed in the right direction.

If you look under my album you'll see even smaller species are almost being "straight sticking" Don't think it will ever be a good idea to "keep the rod up" over 45 degrees like Mr Holy GT said... for saltwater species and some bigger fresh water species, something's bound to give in a situation like that... you will be fighting the fish on the part of the rod that cannot take the strain...

[HolyGT]

Thanks MC, now I just hope the blank is the one for the foregrip as I did not receive it with the kit... think it got "lost" as the box was opened up when I received it and everything loose inside, could easily have slipped out, it's a wonder nothing else is missing from the kit

I pressume you have a pre-shaped cork grip as part of the kit? And the foregrip probably supposed to be also preformed cork as well?

If you don't have cork to build yourself and new foregrip - if this is missing, you can look at getting some EVA foam and using that. Same stuff that conventional guys use. I have build up a 12/13 Loomis and a 15/17 utilizing that as foregrip and it came out very nice.

I can send you some pics.

[schmoose]

Thanks guys u've probably just saved me a rod, as im planning on catching a mother GT some time in the next year :-)

[srt007]

I pressume you have a pre-shaped cork grip as part of the kit? And the foregrip probably supposed to be also preformed cork as well?

If you don't have cork to build yourself and new foregrip - if this is missing, you can look at getting some EVA foam and using that. Same stuff that conventional guys use. I have build up a 12/13 Loomis and a 15/17 utilizing that as foregrip and it came out very nice.

I can send you some pics.

Thanks, but it's in Mario's hands now and he will be making the foregrip up, so should not be a problem. I do have a tendency to move my one hand onto the blank, so I'll take the fore grip just in case one day I do hook into a monster :)

But please post a pic anyway if you don't mind....

[srt007]

Another question Arno, do you take a extra 12WT as back-up with your trips, or 10WT?