Problem with 14ft tapered leader ?? please help me out...

[Woolybugger]

Hi guys

I made my own tapered leader the other day. and I had a problem. What i did is I took 4 spools of line and : I made the butt section out of 10kg, 0,42mm = 165cm, then the next...5.5kg maxima fluoro( all that i had ) of 80cm, then other line that was just thinner ( name had worn off of spool ) of 80cm, and then I added a wear section of 40cm which was 4,55kg, 0,2mm. I then added my 5x tippet of about 80cm to that. that made more or less 14ft. I know that I just improved it and used what I had. I did look at specs on the internet of maxima ultragreen boiled leaders. I find it such a las to put like 9 pieces or more of line together. is this what i must do?? I went to the lourens and cast the leader with my 7ft6 xplorer classic 2 with a size 18PTn for the trout. I found it amazingly more difficult to get tight loops. I got much better loops with a straight leader, but I know that on the rivers the presentation is crucial.

What i then did was bit off about 15cm off the butt and the next 2 sections. that means i took off 45cm. I could then get better loops. I dont know what was wrong but i was finding it extremely difficult to turn my nymph over...is the butt too thin???

Any thoughts?? what basic 4 or 5 piece leaders work for you guys??

Cheers
Chris

[FlyFanatic]

I really dont know, but got slapped in the face today by school of yellows... Leader was about 9ft, and still it spooked them!!

If someone has an excellent formula for building your own tapered leaders for about 14ft, please share!!

[Korrie]

Casting very long leaders, definitly requires you to change your casting a little.
you have to slow down.
Give the leader a chance to straighten behind you.
If the leader is not propely constructed, it will be even more difficult.

I would rather make the butt section shorter and the tippet longer.
It would help in turning it over, easier.

[Woolybugger]

Thank you Korrie! Must I make the butt thicker too?? I wonder if the choice of line will make a big difference? Maybe i should go out and use only maxima. eg. 12kg maxima ultragreen, 10kg, 7kg, 5,5kg, 3,5kg etc.

What you think??
Im working on it FlyFanatic!!

Cheers

[MCC]

Hi there Chris

The purpose behind a self tied leader is to create a leader which will improve on the factory bought leaders but it will only be an improvement if it is properly constructed with a fluid taper. If you mess with the system you will create a useless piece of mono and if it is too much hassle to tie nine pieces of mono together, then it will be better to stick to a factory leader.

Why not use a nine foot leader tapered to 5x and add some 6x and 7x to the front. All your frustration will dissapear.

Regards
MC

[Woolybugger]

Thanks MCC, good point! I will make the effort. hopefully it will work out!

Cheers
Chris

[FlyFanatic]

Will the same work by buying say a 9ft 1X leader, and then adding some 3X tippet?

[Korrie]

To Echo MC's point,
a well constructed leader is a dream to cast.
But it needs a proper taper.
The science of leader construction is a complete facet of its own in the fly fishing sport.

The more you play with the different setups, the more you will be comfortable with what works for you.
some interesting reads about leader construction
http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/production_leaders/
http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/

[Woolybugger]

Thanks Korrie!

[Andre]

If you don't know exactly what you are wanting to achieve by your leader construction, don't bother. You can't just sommer tie a few lengths of mono together and expect it to work. There has to be a plan as to what you need the leader to do, under what conditions. If you can't get a factory leader to work perfectly, don't try buildng them yourself.
Re 1x leaders, no, you are going to have to step it down with too many tippet sections. For the streams, rather go for a 5 or 6x factory keader, and step it down as you require. If you are planning a tight stream like the Lourens, start with a 10 foot leader, and see how that workd for you. Unless you are an expert caset, a 14 foot leader is going to be difficult.

[gkieser]

Hi Woollybugger,

I think the problem with your leader is the dramatic drop from 10kg to 5.5 kg and then a long gradual taper from there to the fly so i think too much energy is lost too quickly and your leader cannot straighten. The taper is used to concentrate the energy as it moves down the line, and so in your case the +- 2m of very gradual taper is not concentrating the energy faster than the energy is being used or lost.

0.42 is a good diamater for the butt length. try replacing the 5.5kg with something thicker, eg about 7 or 8kg and then to the 4.5kg as you have. This should even out the transfer of energy significantly and you should see an improvement in your casting.

It is quite possible to get a leader of three different diameters to turn over nicely if the diameter and length of each piece is thought out properly. Start with the lengths you were using, then experiment with shortening some of the pieces to see what works best for you.

Cheers
Grant

[Woolybugger]

Very good advice Andre! thank you! Ya i got the 14ft to turn over properly once or twice. I am gonna work on it nontheless just to see if i can get it right. something to do other than homework! I have a better understanding of wht it must do now, so i might get it right after a while...

Thanks!
Chris

[Woolybugger]

Thank you very much for the advice Grant! good to hear from all of you guys that know your story!

I will try that. So the butt needs to be longer and when it is slightly stiffer it will turn over better? is this what you are saying?

Thanks
Chris

[gkieser]

I wouldn't go longer than the 1.6m that you have already as that is quite long for a butt.

They key is in the changes in diameter and for how long they stay the same diameter. If the pieces are short then more energy is tranferred, and obviously the longer the pieces, the less energy is transferred. This is why a constant taper (ie many different diameter changes) is the most effective. If you have a short bit in there the power will transfer quickly through that section.

Have a look at this (http://www.flytalk.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=207&highlight=pascal+cognard) old thread - it may explain a bit more.

There are some very good stream formulae in that thread but you will see how many changes in diameter are used. You can combine some of them into 1 length of 1 diameter to use less different diameters of mono.

Cheers
G

[Michael]

This is the leader combo I tie up for use on trout in stillwaters, and yellows on dry fly on the Vaal and on Sterkfontein. It works very well for me.

1m x 10kg Maxima Ultragreen
50cm x 7kg Maxima Ultragreen
50cm x 5.5kg Maxima Ultragreen
50cm x 4.5kg Maxima Ultragreen
50cm x 3X tippet material

That's the standard one, and I make up a few of these for the day and keep them seperately rolled up in small ziplock bags.

To this I add 40cm of either 4X or 5X and attach the dry fly.
Or, if I want to fish dry and dropper, I attach the dry fly to the 3X tippet, and then add 4X or 5X to the hook bend, and attach the dropper fly to the end.

I'll vary the tippet diameter according to the size of the fish about though, so slight modifications are called for in certain circumstances. In general, this set-up has served me well for many years.

[Woolybugger]

sweet thanks