Email to Oord Nebo - 10/03/2011

[jeremyr]

I took the liberty to send this email to Oord Nebo. I have fished it for many years, and can see the fishing pressure on this excellent venue is mounting....

The email address is admin@oordnebo.co.za if you wish to also send some support emails.

Email: =====================================

Hi,


I write this email with respect but also with concern.

We note what appears to be a lack of active management of the conservation of the one of the indigenous species Labeobarbus (smallmouth yellowfish) on the area of Vaal river which flows past your property. You may or may not be aware that the fish is a protected species in the Vaal river and an indicator of the quality and ecological balance of the Vaal river, which we heavily rely on for industry and other requirements. I presume by the display of the YFWG (Yellowfish Working Group) at the resort you are aware of such facts.

I can appreciate the need for you to have patrons at your resort to support a business, however there is photographic evidence of the infringement of current Yellowfish Protection Laws. Uncontrolled fishing for this species is taking place with what would appear to be patrons who are not in need of subsistence angling for day to day survival, slaughtering fish after fish of the above species in contravention of the conservation law, with a fine of R2000.00 currently in place.

Fishing within the spawning grounds of the venue is resulting in untold damage to the survival of the species. I quote a scientific and economic observation with respect to the Labeobarbus:

Quote: Courtesy http://ncywg.co.za/news/smy.htm

Economic:

Smallmouth yellowfish are highly prized gamefish and their proximity to the Gauteng heartland is the keystone of the yellowfish fly fishing industry in South Africa. The angling tourism industry centred on the Vaal river has been valued at a massive R1.2 billion per annum which includes direct costs (angling equipment) and indirect costs (transport, accommodation and food). All forms of angling have targeted this species with great success and organised angling has been very supportive of measures to improve conservation of the two yellowfish species in this river system - competitive fishing for either species has been discontinued.

Scientific:

The smallmouth yellowfish is a slow-growing species with a low egg to mass ratio (fecundity), only becoming sexually active at a fork length of 30cm when it is almost seven years old.
During the spawning season the skin of the male fish is covered in sensory papillae, giving it a rough feel to the touch. This is also found in females but to a lesser extent, therefore always wet your hands before handling fish as dry hands can remove this critical mucous layer that protects the skin and scales.

Considering the above two points, you can understand why the species is in need of protection. 7 Years to become sexually active….. Tramping in the spawning beds is a horrific act. Targeting spawning fish is disastrous.

We appeal as members of the fly-fishing community in both Gauteng and the Free State for observation of the above facts. In the event of failure (we sincerely hope you will consider these facts), we will need to take further action.

This is not directed only at your resort. It is a general malaise that appears to affect venues on the Vaal river. Should the complete demise of the yellowfish stock occur in the Vaal river, I can without doubt tell you it will have a severe economic impact on resort owners. The Fly Fishing fraternity is a close community with many highly educated members in high social and business standing and have sway in most communities, with active Carte Blanche series being launched. They are also a community that mostly have funds at their disposal and will gladly pay a premium to visit a resort that is sustainably managing the yellowfish population. You may have 10 fly fishing anglers in a day paying the full price, respecting the resort, not causing trouble. There will be ongoing repeat business in the form of accommodation.

By all means target the non-indigenous species such as Carp (particularly grass carp and barbel). The Carp species (grass) is particularly invasive and from a subsistence point of view an ideal fish for communities to catch and eat.

Should you visit the flyfishing forum www.flytalk.co.za with over 2500 active members, you will get an idea of the passion there is for the sport and conservation of the species. Bad press on this site will kill any resort.

A commendation otherwise on the physical management aspects of the resort, clean, well maintained and a true asset to the heritage of the Vaal river.....


Awaiting your response / acknowledgement of this email.


Thanks


Jeremy Reynolds

[schloshd1]

Well done Jeremy. I also emailed them this morning as did at least one other forum member.

[GrahamS]

Vote with your wallets...

[Herman Jooste]

Vote with your wallets...

Graham, for all of us who were ther WE ARE.

I'm not going back untill Management changes their outlook.

[jeremyr]

Hi, there has been a favourable response to the email (see below):

================================================== =======
Hello Jeremy



Thanks for your letter, we did bring this matter under the attention of our visitors and try to resolve the problem. we attempt to issue every fisherman who enters our property

a copy of the protection law. If you have any suggestions that could help us, we will appreciate it if you can forward it to us, we will do everything in our power to make sure

this won't happen again.


Thanks'

Oord Nebo

================================================== ======

They are asking for any suggestions to control this problem?

1. Mark off spawning beds?
2. More visual YFWG signs. Maybe a contribution to put up signs on the river bank with the R2000 fine warning?

[schloshd1]

They are asking for any suggestions to control this problem?

1. Mark off spawning beds?
2. More visual YFWG signs. Maybe a contribution to put up signs on the river bank with the R2000 fine warning?

3. Actively checking that people are sticking to the rules and taking a zero tolerance aproach to people breaking them.

[core fly]

Well done guys,just shows what can be done.And well done to Oord Nebo for at least responding favourably.

[E.T.]

Funny how things work, you will say anything not to loose business.
I am not convinced by the response, sorry.

[jock0]

Checking provincial licences when fisherman pay their daily fees.

This sounds like admin but mention the fact that they can purchase a "book of licences" for resale and hopefully they'll bite.

[Monster]

Awesome

Thanks Jeremy

just an idea so please comment!

If we as flytalk members can put to gether a list of places on the vaal we will visit. If the area ans Yellows are handled with the correct care and management of the resort police and enforce the rules. The opposite is also true if the resort doess not stick to the rules their names will be rmoved from the list and put onto a no go area list.

The economic pressure something like this will put pressure on resorts to change their enviromental stance.

Like I said just an idea?

[jeremyr]

Awesome

Thanks Jeremy

just an idea so please comment!

If we as flytalk members can put to gether a list of places on the vaal we will visit. If the area ans Yellows are handled with the correct care and management of the resort police and enforce the rules. The opposite is also true if the resort doess not stick to the rules their names will be rmoved from the list and put onto a no go area list.

The economic pressure something like this will put pressure on resorts to change their enviromental stance.

Like I said just an idea?


Hi Monster,

I like the idea, but we have to have support from as many members of the forum as possible, else this will not work:

Current list of venues I have visited listed from the barrage towards and past Parys:

1. Erina - now closed
2. Eagles - now closed ;)
3. Yellow fish paradise
4. Strydoms
5. Strome
6. Eendekuil
7. EastCo
8. Smilin Thru
9. Otters Haunt
10. Dimalachite
11. Hukana Mata
12. Benjoh
13. Elgro
14. Raaswater
15. Oord Nebo

I think out of the above Elgro is probably the only venue actively policed....

[Monster]

Nice Jeremy

You are right we need the support of all the forum members, maby we can ask admin to send a Pm to every one and ask them to commit not to fish the red list places.

Think the list can be sent to lodges to indicate if they are red or green.

[GrahamS]

Funny how things work, you will say anything not to loose business.
I am not convinced by the response, sorry.

Totally agree. They were informed whilst the transgression was taking place, by numerous people, over multiple days. And they did NOTHING to stop the behavior. A nicely worded email response unfortunately won't make me take my business back there.

I would suggest a list of venues that make no attempt to better the situation, and then we boycott them. Period. It will be simple enough to administer, and I promise that the venues will jump through all sorts of hoops to get off that list. We just need to send them a list of changes they need to make in order to comply. Those that are not interested in changing can happily go out of business.

[river_runs_through_it]

Hi Guys,

i have followed this tread with some interest, what do you think of this suggestion in working with a venue like this and creating a membership programme with the owners where we will pay a yearly/monthly fee to them and or upping there daily fishing prices where it will be of financial interest to them to look after these fish? i dont know just a idea?

what are your thoughts?

Regards

Sean Schutte

[Herman Jooste]

Funny how things work, you will say anything not to loose business.
I am not convinced by the response, sorry.

I agree Koos. Oord Nebo only charges R 20.00 per day angler. Their main income is from the Chalets, camping and bottle store.

If 10 f/f day anglers pull out the loss is R 200.00.

If 2 groups of catch and keep fisherman, staying in the Chalets are banned, the loss is R 1000.00.

Why is Arend's Nes the way it is over a weekend ???????

Cash in the till rules, EVERYWHERE.:mad::mad::mad:

[E.T.]

I agree Koos. Oord Nebo only charges R 20.00 per day angler. Their main income is from the Chalets, camping and bottle store.

If 10 f/f day anglers pull out the loss is R 200.00.

If 2 groups of catch and keep fisherman, staying in the Chalets are banned, the loss is R 1000.00.

Why is Arend's Nes the way it is over a weekend ???????

Cash in the till rules, EVERYWHERE.:mad::mad::mad:

My point exactly!!!! To the FF's they say what they want to hear and to the Rest what they want to hear. It's almost the same scenario as our beloved President Jakob Regop, to the farmers he says don't go we need you, but then they defend the singing of Kill the Boer in the highest court??? Politics is a funny thing, eish!!!!

[FLASHGUN]

Ive been following this thread with great interest,
could someone please post a copy of the legislature that says
that smallmouth yellows are a protected species, that way we can keep a copy of the law with us to show to people who transgress these laws in order to educate them.

[Bryan]

I see this issue made it onto the YWG newsletter (http://fosaf.co.za/ywgDisplay.php) on FOSAFs site this month.

[Stones]

I see this issue made it onto the YWG newsletter (http://fosaf.co.za/ywgDisplay.php) on FOSAFs site this month.

Yes and a couple of issues I/we have been working on....

Good work guys, keep it up!

[Jacques O Dell]

Guys. Is there a certain Herman Loubscher on this forum, the one that often fishes Nebo? I'd like to get in touch with him. Cheers

[Herman Jooste]

Guys. Is there a certain Herman Loubscher on this forum, the one that often fishes Nebo? I'd like to get in touch with him. Cheers

Jacques he is in the Forum. His "handle" is I think 0026 ????????.

I know it's numerical, mabe a search wiil help:confused:

[MyWorld]

http://www.flytalk.co.za/forum/member.php?u=757

That is Oom Herman's profile.

We (uncle Herman and I) were there yesterday and all I can say is that the owners are floored by the steady stream of "harassment" they received.

I'm not taking sides on this debate, but something they mentioned is that no one wants to help them. They have responded to numerous emails asking help in either:
1) Law - documents stating what is allowed and not on the river
2) Advice - how to police the water

No one responded favourably. Instead, they claimed they were verbally abused by some FF, I hope it is not someone on this forum, swak, uiters swak.

Uncle Herman did a stellar job of hunting down all the documents (legal and otherwise) he could lay his hands on, and he even introduced the owners of Oord Nebo to FOSAF. They mentioned that everything will most probably go to their lawyers to help them make sense of all this mess.
Lets see what comes of this.

It was a crude wake up call, and one they needed I'm sure. There are a few more venues that need a wake up call like this.

The problem is a lack of knowledge from the owners as well as some fishermen.
I'm going out on a limb here but they (owners) did not even know what a spawning bed was and where they were.
We offered to download a map from Google earth and mark the spawning beds for them so that they can laminate it and place it in the office for everyone to see.
The woman was so grateful she could not stop thanking us, and again, uncle Herman went out of his way to help them with all their queries.

Now a serious question I want to ask all FF on here, have you done your part? Or are we fighting a fight from behind a keyboard?

I would suggest that FlyTalk start a "river owners forum" (name sucks, I know), one near Goosbay and one near Potch, and have quarterly meetings with all owners of venues next to the Vaal, inviting them to bring questions to the table, to give them advice on better policing and policy regarding conservation, etc. If this does not work then we must walk the extra mile and drive to all the venues and do the above mentioned. It will be nothing extra for most of us, once we finished our days fishing we can sit down for a chat with the owners.

I'm willing to throw my weight behind the Potch group. Know one thing that almost all yellowfish forums and work groups like the one I have now mentioned have died a painful death. Either that of they shine in their absence.
It will take a lot of tears to get everyone participating and eventually we will be making a HUGE difference, and this will be a long term commitment, year after year.

IMHO those yellowfish conservation name plaques mentioned earlier means nothing, how many years has it been since anyone (nature conservation, FOSAF, any yellowfish work group, whoever) visited any of these venues mentioned to monitor anything yellowfish related?

How can we expect the owners to do their best at policing whatever policy if we, and I include all us FF up north, do not get involved in their fight as well? We need to put something in their hands, something they can use so that we can all walk away satisfied.

To think I came out of over a years drought to share this...

[wernerm]

JJ, where in the North West are you? I'd like to help if possible my side

[MyWorld]

I'm also from Potch.

[GrahamS]

I'm going out on a limb here but they (owners) did not even know what a spawning bed was and where they were.


They were shown a client, of theirs, with 20-30 yellows on a string. 2 days in a row! And they did NOTHING because "He is a regular". Lack of legal knowledge etc. etc. doesn't even come into it. They rely on people staying over in their chalets, and they are to scared to lose the business if they clamp down on them. While I sympathize with them over the potential loss of income, the river is not theirs to use and abuse as they see fit.

[Monster]

Hi Monster,

I like the idea, but we have to have support from as many members of the forum as possible, else this will not work:

Current list of venues I have visited listed from the barrage towards and past Parys:

1. Erina - now closed
2. Eagles - now closed ;)
3. Yellow fish paradise
4. Strydoms
5. Strome
6. Eendekuil
7. EastCo
8. Smilin Thru
9. Otters Haunt
10. Dimalachite
11. Hukana Mata
12. Benjoh
13. Elgro
14. Raaswater
15. Oord Nebo

I think out of the above Elgro is probably the only venue actively policed....

Hi Gents

You are right it doesn't help we just ***** and moan about these guys. Starting an owners thread is a brilliant idea to educate these owners. oord Nebo is a good example. Does any one have mail adderesses for these abovementioned resorts? Admin can we start a new subject on the main page to which we can invite these guys and maby sticky note Law and Fosaf ens details to the top of it?

[schloshd1]

http://www.flytalk.co.za/forum/member.php?u=757

That is Oom Herman's profile.

We (uncle Herman and I) were there yesterday and all I can say is that the owners are floored by the steady stream of "harassment" they received.

I'm not taking sides on this debate, but something they mentioned is that no one wants to help them. They have responded to numerous emails asking help in either:
1) Law - documents stating what is allowed and not on the river
2) Advice - how to police the water

No one responded favourably. Instead, they claimed they were verbally abused by some FF, I hope it is not someone on this forum, swak, uiters swak.

Uncle Herman did a stellar job of hunting down all the documents (legal and otherwise) he could lay his hands on, and he even introduced the owners of Oord Nebo to FOSAF. They mentioned that everything will most probably go to their lawyers to help them make sense of all this mess.
Lets see what comes of this.

It was a crude wake up call, and one they needed I'm sure. There are a few more venues that need a wake up call like this.

The problem is a lack of knowledge from the owners as well as some fishermen.
I'm going out on a limb here but they (owners) did not even know what a spawning bed was and where they were.
We offered to download a map from Google earth and mark the spawning beds for them so that they can laminate it and place it in the office for everyone to see.
The woman was so grateful she could not stop thanking us, and again, uncle Herman went out of his way to help them with all their queries.

Now a serious question I want to ask all FF on here, have you done your part? Or are we fighting a fight from behind a keyboard?

I would suggest that FlyTalk start a "river owners forum" (name sucks, I know), one near Goosbay and one near Potch, and have quarterly meetings with all owners of venues next to the Vaal, inviting them to bring questions to the table, to give them advice on better policing and policy regarding conservation, etc. If this does not work then we must walk the extra mile and drive to all the venues and do the above mentioned. It will be nothing extra for most of us, once we finished our days fishing we can sit down for a chat with the owners.

I'm willing to throw my weight behind the Potch group. Know one thing that almost all yellowfish forums and work groups like the one I have now mentioned have died a painful death. Either that of they shine in their absence.
It will take a lot of tears to get everyone participating and eventually we will be making a HUGE difference, and this will be a long term commitment, year after year.

IMHO those yellowfish conservation name plaques mentioned earlier means nothing, how many years has it been since anyone (nature conservation, FOSAF, any yellowfish work group, whoever) visited any of these venues mentioned to monitor anything yellowfish related?

How can we expect the owners to do their best at policing whatever policy if we, and I include all us FF up north, do not get involved in their fight as well? We need to put something in their hands, something they can use so that we can all walk away satisfied.

To think I came out of over a years drought to share this...

I'm not sure who's emails they responded to asking for advice/help but they definitely did not respond at all to mine or another forum member's mails when we let them know our concerns.
I'm not going to get into that matter any further but I was there and know what I saw/experienced that weekend.

However well done to you and Uncle Herman, that is a very positive step in the right direction.

[redhumpy]

If you look at our regulations you will see that the bag limit for Small Mouth Yellowfish are 2 per day wit a minimum size of 300mm.

Here is a link to the document that can be printed and given to the owners.

http://www.nwpg.gov.za/Economic%20Dev.%20&%20Tourism/Documents/2009%20Angling%20Regs.pdf

Maybe a more radical step, but maybe necessary, would be to propose to government that just like with hunting and shad fishing there should be a closed season for targeting Yellowfish namely 1 September - 1 November.

[saml]

http://www.flytalk.co.za/forum/member.php?u=757

That is Oom Herman's profile.

We (uncle Herman and I) were there yesterday and all I can say is that the owners are floored by the steady stream of "harassment" they received.

I'm not taking sides on this debate, but something they mentioned is that no one wants to help them. They have responded to numerous emails asking help in either:
1) Law - documents stating what is allowed and not on the river
2) Advice - how to police the water

No one responded favourably. Instead, they claimed they were verbally abused by some FF, I hope it is not someone on this forum, swak, uiters swak.

Uncle Herman did a stellar job of hunting down all the documents (legal and otherwise) he could lay his hands on, and he even introduced the owners of Oord Nebo to FOSAF. They mentioned that everything will most probably go to their lawyers to help them make sense of all this mess.
Lets see what comes of this.

It was a crude wake up call, and one they needed I'm sure. There are a few more venues that need a wake up call like this.

The problem is a lack of knowledge from the owners as well as some fishermen.
I'm going out on a limb here but they (owners) did not even know what a spawning bed was and where they were.
We offered to download a map from Google earth and mark the spawning beds for them so that they can laminate it and place it in the office for everyone to see.
The woman was so grateful she could not stop thanking us, and again, uncle Herman went out of his way to help them with all their queries.

Now a serious question I want to ask all FF on here, have you done your part? Or are we fighting a fight from behind a keyboard?

I would suggest that FlyTalk start a "river owners forum" (name sucks, I know), one near Goosbay and one near Potch, and have quarterly meetings with all owners of venues next to the Vaal, inviting them to bring questions to the table, to give them advice on better policing and policy regarding conservation, etc. If this does not work then we must walk the extra mile and drive to all the venues and do the above mentioned. It will be nothing extra for most of us, once we finished our days fishing we can sit down for a chat with the owners.

I'm willing to throw my weight behind the Potch group. Know one thing that almost all yellowfish forums and work groups like the one I have now mentioned have died a painful death. Either that of they shine in their absence.
It will take a lot of tears to get everyone participating and eventually we will be making a HUGE difference, and this will be a long term commitment, year after year.

IMHO those yellowfish conservation name plaques mentioned earlier means nothing, how many years has it been since anyone (nature conservation, FOSAF, any yellowfish work group, whoever) visited any of these venues mentioned to monitor anything yellowfish related?

How can we expect the owners to do their best at policing whatever policy if we, and I include all us FF up north, do not get involved in their fight as well? We need to put something in their hands, something they can use so that we can all walk away satisfied.

To think I came out of over a years drought to share this...

I certainly will not join the debate of whether or not verbal abuse was deserved or not as I was not there to witness their response to the concerns expressed to them.

But I think a river owners forum is a brilliant idea, not only as a sticky thread like someone mentioned above, but also with regular meetings, maybe two or three times a year, with these land owners, concerned fisherman, concerned environmentalists etc. much like what I imagine the YWG meetings are like.

There is enough passion behind this cause to get things going, the only questionable resource is, of course, money. Organisations like YWG should be getting some of the money that is raised from freshwater fishing licenses. I know that at the moment there is probably next to nothing being raised form freshwater fishing licenses, but if it was clear that the money was actually going towards conservation of our rivers, and on top of that the licenses are easily obtained, well advertised and well policed then I think things would be different.

There needs to be a complete overhaul of the licensing system. The policing of the licenses could be done by the land owners themselves, like I've said before - I don't see them turning people away as this would mean they lose money, but they could charge a higher day fee for unlicensed fisherman and encourage them to get one for next time.

[MyWorld]

I'm not sure who's emails they responded to asking for advice/help but they definitely did not respond at all to mine or another forum member's mails when we let them know our concerns.
I'm not going to get into that matter any further but I was there and know what I saw/experienced that weekend.

However well done to you and Uncle Herman, that is a very positive step in the right direction.

Again, I'm not taking sides on this, and you know what you saw and what you tried doing to stop the slaughter, so I cannot argue with that.

They did confront the perpetrator and he just blasted away with arguments that according to law he is allowed to kill the fish (hence the documents they requested). Long story short, he is never going to Oord Nebo and will never be fishing that water again.

What really needs to be done at almost all FF venues is to start a booking system. Water pressure is also insane this time of the year. It has been months and months of fishing drought and everybody is hitting the water hard.
With a booking system you can monitor:
*) Who is on the water
*) How many people are on the water - only a set limit is allowed
*) Have their particulars in case you need it to take steps against them like mentioned here.

It will be hard to implement, but we must actually push all venues in this direction.

Anyway, I did nothing, uncle Herman is the one who is doing his best in this case. Oord Nebo is his second home after all.
If someone wants to start with the idea I mentioned in an earlier post, just PM me and we can see if we can again start a work group.

[redhumpy]

We need to start a system such as the Honorary Rangers. In the National Parks honorary rangers have the authority to enforce the laws of the park. They are members of the general public who give back some of their time for nature conservation.

We need to formulate a document whereby we suggest a similar route.
In return for gathering information on our yellowfish and feeding it into a database "catch register" we can supply government with critical information.
We can set-up the national yellowfish catch register and members can take responsibility for the data and maintenance of the database.

With this we can also report on pollution, illegal fishing, maybe even a bird register.

In return some of the members should be appointed honorary rangers with the mandate to enforce the law.

[0266395]

As Joggie indicated, I spoke to the owners of Oord Nebo and tried to put things in perspective. They feel really bad about this whole thing and they told me that they are keen to do something about it. They indicated that they did not have the relevant lesgislation and I know it is no excuse. I also told them that if they allow people to brake the law while operating from their property, they are also guilty and they understand it. I searched for the relevant legislation which is not an easy task, because some of the regulations from the former Transvaal and Northern Cape provinces are still in force. I could not find all the relevant regulations, but gave Oord Nebo a copy of what I found. I also gave them contact numbers for FOSAF.
I explained to them that most flyfishers are passionate about the well being of yellows and they expect venue owners to respect that.

I am convinced that they want to co-operate and I think we should help them where we can. There are not too many venues with quality waters and I am sure that we will achieve more if we try to help and assist, and even critisize if needed, instead of attack.

[Shamwari]

Job Well done

[Et1]

I like the positive reaction to this thread. Only good can come from the efforts of all FF who would like to fish for Yellows twenty years from now. A hint to all, keep emotions in check and concentrate on facts. It helps to focus on your goal: fish for yellows twenty years from now. ;):):D

[Jacques O Dell]

I also had a serious talk to the young lad at Oord Nebo on Wednesday. He asked me questions on how long etc Yellows spawn... He asked a few stupid(in our books) and a few good/hard questions (that made me look stupid...) This goes to show that they are willing to learn. Its the first step! I was realy realy bleak at first when I saw all the farm workers jig fish, then I lost it when fellow flyfishers 'jigged' that first weekend of Oct (when that Idiot in the vivo fished the spawning beds and killed all the SM's). But the reality is if whe as flyfishers 'boycot' Oord Nebo then this very special venue will go to shit! I rate Oord Nebo as one of the best SM venues on this section of the Vaal. They could be in the same class as Elgro (speaking of the fishing now and not accomodation etc) if they can sort out their conservation.

My recommendations are to stop the workers from JIGGING the spawning fish. This is going to be damn hard. In all reality near imposible. If you force the neighbours workers to stop fishing then nothing will stop him from coming for your wife and children! Seriously generalising here but we all know what farm murders and related crime stats are like! One way to promote them to not jig is to actualy pay them to remove unwanted fish. They can gooi n pappie or ertie and for every Bass, Carp, Grasscarp and Barbel they remove they get paid plus they can keep the fish. If there are any hook jig marks or net marks on the fish then they get nothing! This might work. But I have seen a worker catch a yellow at Elgro before and he was very skelm in trying to hide this. I managed to inform them about this and the fish was freed. So yes a few yellows might get caught and eaten but the impact would be much less than jigging.

The second piece of advice is ACTIVE PATROLLING OF THE WATER. They need to walk the banks every couple of hours, checking the 'keep nets' of papgooiers and seeing that flyfishers dont fish spawning beds etc.

The third piece of advice is KNOW THE LAW! For example; I am permitted by law to keep two Smallmouth yellowfish IF, and i repeat. IF IF IF IF IF IF they are size and IF IF IF IF IF i have a legal fishing license! Take note that I say LICENSE and not permit, see later. Like that d##s in the Vivo. I can guarantee you now that he did not even have a permit. The same for the farm workers. They need a permit if they want to remove fish. Now for the part no one wants to hear. You can not catch a Largemouth yellowfish even if you have a fishing license! You will need a permit for largies as they are a TOP species. For more info google TOPS regulations, a section of the NEMBA. It is the same in principle as catching a Rhino. And you can definately NOT remove/hurt/threaten etc a largie in any way. Thus no fisherman is allowed to remove a Largie. Hence the huge debate around Stywe Lyne magazine publishing (thus promoting) photos of dead Largies!

My personal opinion is that fishing licences is a waste. Land owners should enforce the rules (the same rules should be made into local rules) thus if a fisherman doesnt stick to them then the owners have the right to throw them of their property. Fisherman should sign the local rules when entering the property.

Hoop dit help

Herman, please PM me your number. Id like to fish with you then we discuss this a bit. I fish every Wednesday.

Cheers

[wernerm]

Jacques thank you for a well informed piece of literature. This is the kind of information that the public and fellow fly-fishers need.

First prize would be to get all yellows on that list and that should not be impossible talking to the right people. If we get certain politicians involved i am sure the issue will get a serious kick start.

If you and Herman are fishing next Wednesday I'd like to drive through and discuss this as well. As long as it is not too far from Potch. It's a heck of a drive for me from here any closer to Jowies. I am sure there is somewhere where we can make a true difference fighting these problems.

[wernerm]

I like the positive reaction to this thread. Only good can come from the efforts of all FF who would like to fish for Yellows twenty years from now. A hint to all, keep emotions in check and concentrate on facts. It helps to focus on your goal: fish for yellows twenty years from now. ;):):D

Jy's reg Ettienne, dit gaan oor die goal om die oukies nog te kan loslaat oor 20 jaar. Net jammer dat selfs op die forum as mens begin aksie neem word dit 'n politiese pis kompetisie. Ek hoop maar om die regte mense in persoon te ontmoet sodat ons iets daadwerkliks kan doen en nie net praat en mekaar kritiseer nie.

Wanneer fish ons weer bietjie saam?

[Jacques O Dell]

Look I might be wrong about the LM as according to TCFF there are provincial differences on their legislation. This to me makes no sence at all as the TOPS regulations fall under NEMBA, which stands for NATIONAL Environmental Management Biodiversity Act, with the crux on the N. Surely there can be no provincial differences if the National law regards the Largemouth yellow as a Threatened or Protected Species. This is the whole problem! Nie eers die donners wat vir DAFF werk nie weet wat aangaan nie. Nou hoe de moer moet die publiek dan weet...

[Jacques O Dell]

Ek sien nou met al my strontpraat is ek nie meer n guppy nie maar al n hookjaw. Cant we change this to rubberlip or something for the serious vaal shufflers... haha. moes dit net se.

[wernerm]

I think it is goign to be a long hard battle and we might even get nowhere. As you said, the governing bodies don't even know what is going on so to get the facts would be a start. AFAIK Dean Impson is probably the only person that can tell us exactly what is going on, this is his field or it was last time i checked.

[firephish]

I fished nebo this weekend (thought I'd see for myself what all the drama was about). When I paid at the front desk the young lad explained that fishing was catch and release only and that the yellows where spawning so I should avoid the shallow gravel beds. So seems the message has got through. I also sat and watched some some huge yellows spawning - and observed two young FF walk around them :)

As usual the local kids where bait fishing in the first channel below the challets - but I don't hold that against then.

[Circus]

I had the same experience as Firephish when I fished there on Saturday. Good to see that progress is being made.

[GrahamS]

I fished nebo this weekend (thought I'd see for myself what all the drama was about). When I paid at the front desk the young lad explained that fishing was catch and release only and that the yellows where spawning so I should avoid the shallow gravel beds. So seems the message has got through. I also sat and watched some some huge yellows spawning - and observed two young FF walk around them :)

As usual the local kids where bait fishing in the first channel below the challets - but I don't hold that against then.

This is excellent news. At least they are making an effort.

[Bryan]

That is good news.

In instances like this I think that the way that the message is delivered is very important. A good message delivered in the wrong way is much less likely to be acted on.

Just something to consider for any future education initiatives for some of the other venues we may encounter this type of activity at.

[redhumpy]

We need your help.
I have managed to get the Premier's office involved - and they now need our help.

Please see the thread.

http://www.flytalk.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=9903


On that note: I went to Nebo this week-end. When I booked in the lady asked me if I am aware of the Yellowfish regulations etc. That was awesome!
The people running Nebo fully understands where we are coming from but was previously unaware. They are desperate for our help and are really good people trying to make a living. We should help them wherever we can!

I also saw the work done by Herman - Well done - and also the flies for sale at Nebo (Hoped they are de barbed:D)

Thanks Herman.

[BuzzLiteBeer]

We need your help.
I have managed to get the Premier's office involved - and they now need our help.

Please see the thread.

http://www.flytalk.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=9903


On that note: I went to Nebo this week-end. When I booked in the lady asked me if I am aware of the Yellowfish regulations etc. That was awesome!
The people running Nebo fully understands where we are coming from but was previously unaware. They are desperate for our help and are really good people trying to make a living. We should help them wherever we can!

I also saw the work done by Herman - Well done - and also the flies for sale at Nebo (Hoped they are de barbed:D)

Thanks Herman.

Nice work. Partnership with the resort can only benefit all parties.

[Stones]

Just got this from Peter Arderne and sharing....

It is really encouraging to hear that some destinations are prepared to address the problem. He also raises the matter of people either wading from neighbouring properties or the opposite bank which is a difficult issue to resolve. If you are going to the OVRYMCA meeting this should be raised as well. In addition Brandon’s group can have a look at this.
Regards,
Peter

[redhumpy]

Wouldn't it be ironic if the people ranting and raving weren't members of FOSAF:D

[Menofish]

Hi Guys,

How can I get involved to protect our yellowfish? I'm going to Oord Nebo this weekend. I will have a look if managment is able to do some effort controlling the banks for anglers not releasing any yellowfish.

We really need to do something. I heard stories of bank anglers catch yellows and cook them right then and there. Sad, but the truth!!

Tight Lines

Marko Kleynhans

[redhumpy]

Hi Guys,

How can I get involved to protect our yellowfish? I'm going to Oord Nebo this weekend. I will have a look if managment is able to do some effort controlling the banks for anglers not releasing any yellowfish.

We really need to do something. I heard stories of bank anglers catch yellows and cook them right then and there. Sad, but the truth!!

Tight Lines

Marko Kleynhans

Hi Marko

Welcome to the Forum.

Please note that they are within their rights to keep and cook two yellows of more than 30cm. More than that you need to have a chat to them.

[Herman Jooste]

Hi Marko

Welcome to the Forum.

Please note that they are within their rights to keep and cook two yellows of more than 30cm. More than that you need to have a chat to them.

And if there are 5 in their group that means 10 SM, over 30cm. You could never proove who caught which fish, and the ABUSERS are actaually using this " Loophole". Put 10 people on or next to the water with a rod in hand, and they count as fisherman, irrespective of the fact that they can actually cast any line.:mad: = 20 SM's taken to kook and or sell.

Small Mouth Yellows only. Any LM has to be returned immediately.

[wernerm]

Personally i think that is insane. It is exactly because of this idiocy that we have so many endangered fish. Start with the freakin rules around 200 fish taken per day by 100 fisherman. Is pollution really the main problem?

[Frank]

And if there are 5 in their group that means 10 SM, over 30cm. You could never proove who caught which fish, and the ABUSERS are actaually using this " Loophole". Put 10 people on or next to the water with a rod in hand, and they count as fisherman, irrespective of the fact that they can actually cast any line.:mad: = 20 SM's taken to kook and or sell.

Small Mouth Yellows only. Any LM has to be returned immediately.

I see on their website it clearly states there is a R2000.00 fine for any yellowfish not released!! Maybe they should just elaborate on this when people get there! Very few people that fish know they can keep 2 yellows over 30cm.

[Herman Jooste]

I see on their website it clearly states there is a R2000.00 fine for any yellowfish not released!! Maybe they should just elaborate on this when people get there! Very few people that fish know they can keep 2 yellows over 30cm.

Any PRIVATE venue owners may impose rules over and above those legislated.
It is after all THEIR land.
Other examples of this are :
ELGRO, flyfishing only , strictly catch & release
Eendekuil, as above
Donaldson Dam, ( Westonarea , Carp & Bass venue ). No keep nets allowed, strictly C & R .

The venue owners decide on the rules, however they may not exceed the catch limits imposed by legislation.

[Frank]

Any PRIVATE venue owners may impose rules over and above those legislated.
It is after all THEIR land.
Other examples of this are :
ELGRO, flyfishing only , strictly catch & release
Eendekuil, as above
Donaldson Dam, ( Westonarea , Carp & Bass venue ). No keep nets allowed, strictly C & R .

The venue owners decide on the rules, however they may not exceed the catch limits imposed by legislation.

Ill be willing to pay more for a venue that is well run like ELGRO etc, you know what you pay for! I dont want to see yellows being put in a keepnet, makes me :mad: die m&^r in! Saw a guy at BJ a while ago fishing with bait in the rapids, discuised with a fly reel on a 6ft bass rod!

He caught two very nice fish, when he unhooked them he grabbed them IN the gills and chucked them back. No net nothing!

[Herman Jooste]

Ill be willing to pay more for a venue that is well run like ELGRO etc, you know what you pay for! I dont want to see yellows being put in a keepnet, makes me :mad: die m&^r in! Saw a guy at BJ a while ago fishing with bait in the rapids, discuised with a fly reel on a 6ft bass rod!

He caught two very nice fish, when he unhooked them he grabbed them IN the gills and chucked them back. No net nothing!

At least he returned them. Education, education, education. We have to enlighten the povo.