Breaking strain vs knot strenght vs fish that got away

[Jacques O Dell]

They say the BEST knot is the one you can tie the best...

I have been doing lots of knot tying the past few days. This after my last drop-shot trip to Moz. The Kingfish smashed me! The knot that took the most strain is the connection between braided main line and fluoro leader. Eish. So in the process of figuring out which knots work best I stumbled upon many interesting knots. Youtube jou lekker ding.

I have come to the conclusion that alot of the best knots are damn hard to tie! Especialy when you are standing on the rocks, keeping an eye out for incoming surf, the kingies are in a feeding frenzy, your mate is hammering them etc etc.

The bimini works great and is likely the easiest 100% breaking strain knot to tie. It works best in braided line. I am going to try a bimini to bimini loop in small tippet this weekend.

The best connection (in my opinion) for similar diameter lines like connecting leader segments or leader to tippet is the surgeons knot. It is very easy to tie and is close to 100% breaking strain. In effect it isn't even a 'knot'. What does make the line break in the end is the fact that one portion of mono cuts into the other. The improvement on this would be the j-knot.

The perfection loop seems to be the strongest loop (apart from the bimini twist's loop). Thus connecting pieces of line with p-loops is definately an option.

For terminal knots I will recommend the palomar knot. Easy to tie, high strength knot. (might not work for very small hook-eyes, then go with the uni-knot or perfection loop.)

For larger flies I will consider the knot shown by petercoetzee. This is an improved version of the uni-knot called the fish-a-fool-knot. They reckon this knot is stronger than 100%...!? Many knots can be improved by passing the line throught the hook-eye twice.

I have always used a clinch knot (or improved clinch depending on line thickness) for tying on flies. I doubt I will use it any longer. There is also an 'improved' improved clinch knot...

[JulzD]

QUOTE Jacques O Dell "The knot that took the most strain is the connection between braided main line and fluoro leader. "

I know this is an old post but check out the GT knot on you tube for joining braided lines to Fluoro or mono. It works by plaiting the braid onto the fluoro/mono and the tighter you pull the more it holds. Very small profile too so doesnt cause issues in your rods eyes when passing through. Its also a good knot for joining backing to flyline etc.

[Korrie]

The improved clinch not improves nothing, it only proves that you can tie an improved clinch knot. (a saying among italian fly fishers.)

[JHH]

So I had one that got away recently...

I was fishing Leverpa outside dullstroom. There was a nice breeze (and terristrials on the water taken by trout) and some evidence of mayfly type nymphs around. So in true marginally educated fashion I had a DDD and a (what my wife calls) dangler in the form the a small GRHE. I tied the GRHE to the bend of the DDD hook with a clinch knot (improved as it may or may not be). On a basically static retrieve the DDD stopped and then it was fish on! it was a nice big'n as it made light work of the line in my hand and was on the real (which had very little drag) in no time. I was palming the real and kept normal pressure on. However, this was bigger than anything I had previously hooked. not long after that, the fish came off. When I inspected the line I saw the DDD (which was on a 4x) was still there but all traces of the GRHE had vanished (was also a 4x size). So the knot on the bend of the hook didn't hold.

After that woeful account - what knot should go there? Perfection loop? Something else? any pointers... It works fine like this for stockies and everything up to say 2.4k's which is my PB, but obviously a feisty fellow bigger than that highlighted a weak spot in my knotledge.

Thanks!

[Korrie]

Bad luck.
I would suggest the Pitzen or some call it the Penny knot.
There are good videos on YOUTUBE for both.
The Penny knot, is the Australian name for the Pitzen, and Peter Heys has a nice way to tie it. if you have lot of spare mono.

[saml]

So I had one that got away recently...

I was fishing Leverpa outside dullstroom. There was a nice breeze (and terristrials on the water taken by trout) and some evidence of mayfly type nymphs around. So in true marginally educated fashion I had a DDD and a (what my wife calls) dangler in the form the a small GRHE. I tied the GRHE to the bend of the DDD hook with a clinch knot (improved as it may or may not be). On a basically static retrieve the DDD stopped and then it was fish on! it was a nice big'n as it made light work of the line in my hand and was on the real (which had very little drag) in no time. I was palming the real and kept normal pressure on. However, this was bigger than anything I had previously hooked. not long after that, the fish came off. When I inspected the line I saw the DDD (which was on a 4x) was still there but all traces of the GRHE had vanished (was also a 4x size). So the knot on the bend of the hook didn't hold.

After that woeful account - what knot should go there? Perfection loop? Something else? any pointers... It works fine like this for stockies and everything up to say 2.4k's which is my PB, but obviously a feisty fellow bigger than that highlighted a weak spot in my knotledge.

Thanks!

I'd assume that the knot you used would have been the exact same know that you tied onto the eye's of your GRHE and DDD? So you have to ask yourself why did that knot break and not one of the others?

[JHH]

I'd assume that the knot you used would have been the exact same know that you tied onto the eye's of your GRHE and DDD? So you have to ask yourself why did that knot break and not one of the others?

indeed. And good point! the knot between the main tippet and DDD looked fine maybe slightly stressed. Both tippets came of the same spool, so who knows. Maybe I had 6 turns around one knot and only 3 around the other? But being a man for playing the odds I removed the 4x and did the same setup with a 3x and landed a 1.8k hen. But the 4x should be sufficient. Will try that Pitzen knot (thanks Korrie) business and see how I go.

[Andre]

It kind of tells you that the breaking strain rating has very little to do with the weight at which the line breaks. generally breaks happen at the knot, and caused by shock, not weight. Even the best anglers lose fish due to break offs, but better knots and a good technique are going to minimise the break offs. Some guys swear by certain knots, and other guys, by others, so I guess it boils down to how well you tie them. I don't like loop to loops, and also don't like tying tippet to hook bends. Some hooks might have a sharp bit that cuts the line, but generally, the fewer knots the better.

indeed. And good point! the knot between the main tippet and DDD looked fine maybe slightly stressed. Both tippets came of the same spool, so who knows. Maybe I had 6 turns around one knot and only 3 around the other? But being a man for playing the odds I removed the 4x and did the same setup with a 3x and landed a 1.8k hen. But the 4x should be sufficient. Will try that Pitzen knot (thanks Korrie) business and see how I go.

[JHH]

and also don't like tying tippet to hook bends. Some hooks might have a sharp bit that cuts the line, but generally, the fewer knots the better.

makes good sense...but then what setup do you use for a dry / dropper combination? I know when I use two nymphs I often tie the second tippet to eye of the first nymph hook (gives the first nymph interesting action that has had good success thus far) - so you have the tippet to the leader through the eye, and the tippet to the second nymph through that eye (need small tippet and works best size 16 and up). But doesn't work on the dry dropper combo - the dry then doesn't sit lekker. So how now?

[Andre]

There are several ways of doing this. The best for me when fishing a dry on a dropper, is to tie a dropper to the main line. take a piece of tippet as long as you like, and lay it on the main line. Use a thee turn waterman knot, and you have a dropper. Its very quick and works well, and you don't have to break the main line to tie it.. You can have the dropper facing up , or down. I prefer to have it facing down. Tying the nymph to the hook bend or to the eye, isn't a dropper configuration. a dropper is called such, because, it "drops off" the main line, so to fish a dry on a dropper, means that you have a dropper line off the main line, and the dry is tied to it. Many people refer to it as "dry dropper", or "dry and dropper". These are not quite correct. The correct configuration, is "dry on dropper", and this is exactly what it is.Using two nymphs, in this configuration, could be called "nymph on dropper" I suppose.

makes good sense...but then what setup do you use for a dry / dropper combination? I know when I use two nymphs I often tie the second tippet to eye of the first nymph hook (gives the first nymph interesting action that has had good success thus far) - so you have the tippet to the leader through the eye, and the tippet to the second nymph through that eye (need small tippet and works best size 16 and up). But doesn't work on the dry dropper combo - the dry then doesn't sit lekker. So how now?