Vaal River poachers

[redhumpy]

I've seen a horrible trend lately where flyfishers (on this forum) will book a certain campsite/venue and then wade upstream or downstream effectively poaching other "beats" on other people's property.

The worst being those who book Benjoh and then wade upstream onto another section of water that we paid to be on because they are to cheapskate to pay the price for the section of river they want to fish on.
Also those that wade down from Raaswater to Oord Nebo.

Come on - Show some respect.

[IVenter]

Not quite on topic, but can someone explain if ..... The water really does belong to everyone??

I have been K@K on by neighbors of fishing venues claiming that their property runs until the middle of the river because their land is classified as agricultural land. Is this correct??

[redhumpy]

Persoonlik hou ek nie daarvan as mense op my sypaadjie kom lê nie. Ek het daar gras geplant, ek sny dit elke Saterdag, trim die rose en het 'n mooi muur gebou om dit af te rond. Dit behoort nogsteeds aan die munisipaliteit maar dit gee jou nie die reg om sommer met jou 4x4 op my gras te kom stop, my rose te pluk of onder die boom te kom lê nie.
Ek het geen reg oor die sypaadjie nie, dis nie myne nie, al spandeer ek hoeveel tyd en geld om dit mooi te hou. Ek glo net mense het die decency om my te vra of hulle daar kan parkeer, my rose te pluk of onder my boom kom lê. En as ek jou toestemming gee beteken dit nie jy kan op my buurman se gras gaan lê en sommer sy rose ook pluk nie.

[Andre]

Apparently the owners title goes to the 15 year high water mark...or 25 year...not sure. However, it still doesn't mean that anyone can walk up his river. He takes responsibility for it, if it is on his boundary, or runs through his land, and is within his legal rights to ask you to remove yourself if he wants to. Just like someone making a nuisance of themselves on the sidewalk of your house, you can have them removed. Just because you don't own the land, doesn't give anyone the right to treat it as public open space. If you are in the river running through a landowners property, and he asks you to leave, you must leave. If you don't, he has every right to evict you, as if you were on his land.

Not quite on topic, but can someone explain if ..... The water really does belong to everyone??

I have been K@K on by neighbors of fishing venues claiming that their property runs until the middle of the river because their land is classified as agricultural land. Is this correct??

[FlyFanatic]

Interesting topic which have been discussed in the past.

Regarding the boundry of property on the Vaal, it does actually run IN the river, not necessary in the middle. If you look on a geographic map showing the rivers you will see that boundry line. Therefore when you are standing inside the Vaal, you are on some-one's property.

HOWEVER, when you are fishing from a boat/float tube/lie low etc and not physically touching the bottom, legally you can fish whereever you want and now body can chase you away. (bass boats fishing around jetties etc on the middle Vaal around the Rivera area comes to mind)

Regarding wading onto the adjecent property, I do think that some leeway should be allowed, it is not always easy to see where you are and especially when fighting a fish downstream you might easily wade unto some-one else's property. When you have realised you are trespassing then you should make your way back to where you should be. Your example of wading 2 km upstream because you are a cheapskate well that I fully agree with!

I think what you and Andre have mentioned is spot on, legally you might get away with it but we as a Fly fishing community is striving to have a good reputation, that should be enough reason to ask first and be responsible on the river.

Best Regards

Jaco

[icstuff]

I found that I am generally too lazy to wade far enough to trespass, I have trespassed but just so that I could get from one property to another where I have permission from the owner to fish. But if the terrestrial boundary is is not well marked it is difficult to know that you have strayed.

[BenzoV]

On Friday the week before last I was driving on my way to Ben Joh for an afternoon session, I notice out of the corner of my eye a small but clear sign along the way that reads something like Hengel/Fly fishing etc. I'm thinking, hah, nice, a new venue that I have not tried before and I take a short left. Turns out it's the venue next to the farm next to Ben Joh/Vaal de Sioleh. I greet the owner and pay my R50 and as I turn to get into my car the owner starts waxing about the guys who walk over onto his property and fish on his portion of the river and how he's going to chase them blah blah blah. I assume this is the guy I heard of who shoots at fly fishermen and I suddenly wish I had my full attire on so he can easily recognise me while I'm in the water. While he is talking I'm standing there thinking, surely these guys are just wading upstream as they fish and not really keeping track of where they are. I mean I can conceive of a situation where that next rapid is just too good to resist, and in a moment of viskoors I find myself on someone else's property. I say, "sjoe", shake my head in make believe sympathy, greet the farmer, get into my car and drive down to the river.

15 minutes into my session, lo and behold, there he comes. His trousers are dry and in the distant background his new hatchback glimmers in the sunlight. He walks briskly, his red T-shirt symbolising his defiance. With his Mr.Price fishing vest, he proudly waltzes straight across the veld to come and fetch his prize, a session on the neighbouring farmers land. How brilliant a mind, how ingenious. This Einstein just drove PAST the legit owners gate, walked half a km illegally over two properties, risked being shot at with a shotgun, in order to possibly?? save a few pennies. How adventurous, how frugal, how jaw dropping ridiculous.

[igfafly]

The Kiwis are a little more civilised in these matters - they have something called the "Queens Chain" - access for all within the 50 year flood line along the river - still does not mean you can cross someone's land to get to the river though - just that as long as you access from a public road bridge or access place you can wander on up or downstream for as long as you want to without the threat of eviction.

Steve

[Herman Jooste]

On Friday the week before last I was driving on my way to Ben Joh for an afternoon session, I notice out of the corner of my eye a small but clear sign along the way that reads something like Hengel/Fly fishing etc. I'm thinking, hah, nice, a new venue that I have not tried before and I take a short left. Turns out it's the venue next to the farm next to Ben Joh/Vaal de Sioleh. I greet the owner and pay my R50 and as I turn to get into my car the owner starts waxing about the guys who walk over onto his property and fish on his portion of the river and how he's going to chase them blah blah blah. I assume this is the guy I heard of who shoots at fly fishermen and I suddenly wish I had my full attire on so he can easily recognise me while I'm in the water. While he is talking I'm standing there thinking, surely these guys are just wading upstream as they fish and not really keeping track of where they are. I mean I can conceive of a situation where that next rapid is just too good to resist, and in a moment of viskoors I find myself on someone else's property. I say, "sjoe", shake my head in make believe sympathy, greet the farmer, get into my car and drive down to the river.

15 minutes into my session, lo and behold, there he comes. His trousers are dry and in the distant background his new hatchback glimmers in the sunlight. He walks briskly, his red T-shirt symbolising his defiance. With his Mr.Price fishing vest, he proudly waltzes straight across the veld to come and fetch his prize, a session on the neighbouring farmers land. How brilliant a mind, how ingenious. This Einstein just drove PAST the legit owners gate, walked half a km illegally over two properties, risked being shot at with a shotgun, in order to possibly?? save a few pennies. How adventurous, how frugal, how jaw dropping ridiculous.

We were fishing the same venue as you on Sunday, and lo and behold 2 blokes pitch up from below out of nowhere. With the flows the way they were there was NO WAY they got there by wading. I don't blame the owner of "our" venue for wanting to "blow" poachers away.

Vaal Hackle has signs on the bank, telling you that you are leaving their property and are now poaching/trespassing on some one's place. Problem is, you can't see the sign from the middle of the river and 2 islands away !!!!!