Registered Guides

[Andre]

If you are talking specifically fly fishing, then yes, you are correct. At the moment there isn't a recognised guiding training outfit, that complies with the unit standard. Technically, they are all operating illegally, unless the guiding association that they are members of, has applied to relevant current Government Dept for special accreditation.
Iam still in contact with my old contacts at FGAS. I will try and get some quality information on all this, and post it here.

They are all guides. It's just the legality of the thing that is a concern imho. However, there is (afaik) still no legislation for anyone to become a accredited and registered guide within the South African system.

[Andre]

Hunting guides are very strictly controlled, and the Hunting guides association is very good at self monitoring and self regulation. There is tons of money involved, so they do it properly. Hunters have to be assessed regularly, equipment certificates kept up to date etc etc... they go through a whole lot of red tape, including applications for the type of animals, areas they may operate and types of hunting. Its very different.
In the beginning, when FGASA was first started, it was a guiding operation, using former hunters as guides. Obviously they carried rifles when guiding groups... for safety. There were incidents of some of these " guides" antagonising game into charging, purely for the excuse to shoot them in "self defence".... They however very quickly cleaned this up, and put together some very strict codes of ethics and conduct, which have made FGASA the highly respected organisation that it is.
FGASA incidently, was started from an off shoot of the Hunting guides association, when it became clear that there were too many hunters and not enough concessions to go around, some hunters decided to start a "non lethal" guiding operation, using their knowledge of the bush, aimed at photographers, conservationists, bird watchers etc etc...

Is this specifically in terms of flyfishing? How does hunting work or is it irrelevant to the conversation?
Surely if I advertise my services as a guide I take responsibility in terms of the clients well being?

[dlampert]

Is this specifically in terms of flyfishing? How does hunting work or is it irrelevant to the conversation?
Surely if I advertise my services as a guide I take responsibility in terms of the clients well being?

Many moons ago I qualified as a Theta approved 4X4 Tour Guide. It involved 5 days of training covering the legal aspects, marketing, tourism, driving test, recovery, written test etc. You were also required to have a valid level 2 first aid certificate. You had to reregister every couple of years and make sure that your first aid was up to date (they expire after 2 years).

[chrisvd]

There is only a hand full of guides in SA that did the Mario/Fred Reffis course back in the days (Francois Botha of www.theflyguides.com is one of them by the way). These are still the only guides that is operating as required by law, strictly speaking (if they list at all the provincial governments as required, but practically impossible as the government does not have a list, nor do they know that fly-fishing guides exist). The unfortunate thing is, that the unit standard expired and it is currently not possible to get the qualification "Fly-fishing guide" in South Africa.

My 2 cents is that a qualification like the reffis course(if it was still in existence) is not worth much, you need to have much more experience than just a weekend course to do a proper guiding job. The US has no control over their guides and it works great, its pretty self regulating, if you suck, you wont get clients, period, I like this approach and wish our government would stop trying to control and regulate everything the way they try to, it's just counter productive. First aid qualifications is essential imho and if you take guys on the water etc, other qualifications like rafting guide etc. might be necessary. My advice would be to get a rafting guide, pH, field guide qualification and get good at fishing the species you want to guide, then when the government gets their act together, you can get accredited a bit faster as a "fly-fishing guide".

[Andre]

There is only a hand full of guides in SA that did the Mario/Fred Reffis course back in the days (Francois Botha of www.theflyguides.com is one of them by the way). These are still the only guides that is operating as required by law.

The law says that all guides, have to be registered with a THETA (or whatever they call it now) approved association. The association that the guide is a member of, maintains and trains their members in accordance with the unit standard, assesses them, and while they conform and meet the requirements of the unit standard, The Govt will accredit them to guide. If the unit standard has not been maintained by an approved association, or no associatuion exists, there is no way for the guide to register and conform. so therefore, technically he cannot annually renew his accreditation, therefore, technically, there doesn't exist an organisation that can apply to the Govt. for accreditation status. Bear in mind that individuals may not apply for accreditation, it is done through a registered approved training authority for that industry. So, If one doesn't exist... there doesn't exist any legal guides either.

[chrisvd]

The law says that all guides, have to be registered with a THETA (or whatever they call it now) approved association. The association that the guide is a member of, maintains and trains their members in accordance with the unit standard, assesses them, and while they conform and meet the requirements of the unit standard, The Govt will accredit them to guide. If the unit standard has not been maintained by an approved association, or no associatuion exists, there is no way for the guide to register and conform. so therefore, technically he cannot annually renew his accreditation, therefore, technically, there doesn't exist an organisation that can apply to the Govt. for accreditation status. Bear in mind that individuals may not apply for accreditation, it is done through a registered approved training authority for that industry. So, If one doesn't exist... there doesn't exist any legal guides either.

Even worse, thanks for adding that Andre, it seems in summary, there are three things at play here:

1. The law says you must be registered to guide;
2. You cannot get qualified as a "fly-fishing guide" anymore;
3. Even the qualified guides like Francois, Fred etc. cannot register.

The only option left is to get another guide qualification as per my post above and get registered there, at least you "guide" legally then, you just help others fish illegally then????

[Andre]

Pretty much as you say, yes...simply put, its not possible to go do a fly fishing guiding course, and get registered. It woukld be a massively inconvenient , and round about process, of going through a guiding outfit whose primary focus would be some other industry, and not fly fishing, and once you have gone through their training, apply for specialised accreditation for fly fishing, using your past experience as justification.

Even worse, thanks for adding that Andre, it seems in summary, there are three things at play here:

1. The law says you must be registered to guide;
2. You cannot get qualified as a "fly-fishing guide" anymore;
3. Even the qualified guides like Francois, Fred etc. cannot register.

The only option left is to get another guide qualification as per my post above and get registered there, at least you "guide" legally then, you just help others fish illegally then????

[smallstreams.co.za]

Pretty much as you say, yes...simply put, its not possible to go do a fly fishing guiding course, and get registered. It woukld be a massively inconvenient , and round about process, of going through a guiding outfit whose primary focus would be some other industry, and not fly fishing, and once you have gone through their training, apply for specialised accreditation for fly fishing, using your past experience as justification.

RPL is a joke in this country hey

[Andre]

Whats RPL?

RPL is a joke in this country hey

[Ian Couryer]

Hi, just to answer a few of the questions on this thread.

I put R.E.F.F.I.S. behind my name because it is a qualification that is relevant in the guiding world, and a guarantee for prospective clients that I know something about fly fishing and guiding. Even though the sa branch no longer exists the international one does. If you got a degree from wits and the university subsequently closed would you no longer use the degree/ would it be worthless? If you were not a competant fisherman with good all round knowledge you would never have passed the REFFIS course, so I believe it means something on the standard of your skill levels.Guiding is also by reputation so you can still be a guide without a qualification and Theta, just not a legal one.

Theta qualifications are recognised by Castheta as I have just renewed my guiding ticket and had to present all my qualifications including an up to date level one first aid course ( which lasts for 3 years)
When Fransois Botha and Ryan Hammond did their REFFIS courses Fred and Mario had not yet got Theta on board officially so they never got that qualification, which is the legal part needed to legally guide in SA.

The guys who got REFFIS Theta are myself, Fred , Mario, Allan Hobson, Shayne Prinsloo, Andrew Mayo, Andrew Ludwig, and Andre the lawyer whose surname escapes me.
After that the course was discontinued.
When you have the Theta qualification you still have to get registered with your provinces tourism authority, pay a levy and then carry an issued photo ID card which states where you are allowed to operate and what your speciality is, something I now have. I was told by the Gauteng tourism authority that because it is fly fishing and the qualification is NQf level 4, Fly guides are allowed to now guide in all provinces with one card.Sadly I think there are probably only about 3 or four legal fly fishing guides in SA guiding at the moment, if that. Luckily I am one and will use it to the fullest in my marketing!