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Thread: Middelbek

  1. #11
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    in the book 'freshwater fishes of southern africa' it is stated that moggel and vaal river mudfish have been found to interbreed.

    middelbek ? never heard of such a thing.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by C J View Post
    .........amper net so goed jy hak hom in die poephol!
    from now on i'm counting every foul hook muddie , yellow and barbel . 'cause why - it's a middlebek of course

    just kidding around ,bertu.
    i'll reserve judgement on this one until i see proof.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by flybum View Post
    cause why - it's a middlebek of course
    There are a few people on this site who need to be hakked in the poephol.
    "Hierdie drol het baie vlieë" - Ago 2014.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scythe View Post
    There are a few people on this site who need to be hakked in the poephol.
    Wil the then have to join www.middelbekchat.co.za or kan they still be on this site
    Mario Geldenhuys
    Smallstream fanatic, plus I do some other things that I can't tell you about

    "All the tips or magical insights in the world can't replace devotion, dedication, commitment, and gumption - and there is not secret in that" - Glenn Brackett

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by flybum View Post
    from now on i'm counting every foul hook muddie , yellow and barbel . 'cause why - it's a middlebek of course

    just kidding around ,bertu.
    i'll reserve judgement on this one until i see proof.

    Lovely, Enjoyed your foul hook, all fish are now legal.
    Korrie Broos

    Don't go knocking on Death's door, ring the bell and run like hell. He hates it. (anon)
    Nymphing, adds depth to your fly fishing.
    Nymphing, is fly fishing in another dimension

  6. #16
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    FOSAF
    THE FEDERATION OF SOUTHERN AFRICAN FLYFISHERS
    PROCEEDINGS OF THE 12TH YELLOWFISH WORKING GROUP
    CONFERENCE JONKERSHOEK 14 – 16 MARCH 2008
    Edited by Peter Arderne



    • Anglers started catching “weird” looking yellowfish for the last 3 to 5years.
    • It has become famous as “middelbekke” (middlemouths)
    • Two distinctive characteristics of these “middelbekke” are the positioning of their eyes and the form of their mouths. The eyes are placed higher on the skull, and the mouths are bigger and a somewhat harder structure with the incisors (lips) coming together further behind the nostrils compared with what is common in smallmouths.
    • The socalled “middelbek” has been caught on small nymph patterns through to bulky streamer type flies. This shows an adaptation to a variety of different types and size of food.
    • Normal small and largemouth yellowfish are also being caught in the dam.
    • The “middelbek” is by no means a smaller breed, as fish in access of 2 kg are being caught in the dam.
    • There are two bodies of opinion on the theory of the evolution of the “middelbek”. One group sees this as a hybrid, between the two species, as they were forced to spawn together on the scarce mining gravel found in certain parts of the dam. This was left many years ago when alluvial diamonds were being prospected for along the river. A local fisherman/club member has been fishing the dam for a decade now, and has told me that spawning can start late August to early September in the dam, due to the strong winds blowing at that time. It should also be taken into account that the area is always warmer than in the Highveld (38 C warmer), and it seems possible that the shallows could warm up quicker.
    • The second group sees the “middelbek” as an adaptation towards its surroundings/environment. The dam does not have much insect life compared with the Vaal. It seems the dam lends itself more to a more predation/ piscivorous lifestyle as there is an abundance of smaller fish. There is also plenty of rock & tree structure and very clear water with 23 metre visibility at times. It is believed that part of the smallmouth population has adapted to this type of lifestyle, and are breeding because small “middelbekke” (300500g) are also being caught.
    • It should be noted that fishing on this dam is difficult at best of times, and a guide is a prerequisite, and even then the fishing can be heartbreak and neck break.
    • Request has been made from the NCYWG for a genetic analysis of these species to confirm the origins of these fish. "

  7. #17
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    Sterkfontein

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhumpy View Post
    FOSAF
    THE FEDERATION OF SOUTHERN AFRICAN FLYFISHERS
    PROCEEDINGS OF THE 12TH YELLOWFISH WORKING GROUP
    CONFERENCE JONKERSHOEK 14 – 16 MARCH 2008
    Edited by Peter Arderne



    • Anglers started catching “weird” looking yellowfish for the last 3 to 5years.
    • It has become famous as “middelbekke” (middlemouths)
    • Two distinctive characteristics of these “middelbekke” are the positioning of their eyes and the form of their mouths. The eyes are placed higher on the skull, and the mouths are bigger and a somewhat harder structure with the incisors (lips) coming together further behind the nostrils compared with what is common in smallmouths.
    • The socalled “middelbek” has been caught on small nymph patterns through to bulky streamer type flies. This shows an adaptation to a variety of different types and size of food.
    • Normal small and largemouth yellowfish are also being caught in the dam.
    • The “middelbek” is by no means a smaller breed, as fish in access of 2 kg are being caught in the dam.
    • There are two bodies of opinion on the theory of the evolution of the “middelbek”. One group sees this as a hybrid, between the two species, as they were forced to spawn together on the scarce mining gravel found in certain parts of the dam. This was left many years ago when alluvial diamonds were being prospected for along the river. A local fisherman/club member has been fishing the dam for a decade now, and has told me that spawning can start late August to early September in the dam, due to the strong winds blowing at that time. It should also be taken into account that the area is always warmer than in the Highveld (38 C warmer), and it seems possible that the shallows could warm up quicker.
    • The second group sees the “middelbek” as an adaptation towards its surroundings/environment. The dam does not have much insect life compared with the Vaal. It seems the dam lends itself more to a more predation/ piscivorous lifestyle as there is an abundance of smaller fish. There is also plenty of rock & tree structure and very clear water with 23 metre visibility at times. It is believed that part of the smallmouth population has adapted to this type of lifestyle, and are breeding because small “middelbekke” (300500g) are also being caught.
    • It should be noted that fishing on this dam is difficult at best of times, and a guide is a prerequisite, and even then the fishing can be heartbreak and neck break.
    • Request has been made from the NCYWG for a genetic analysis of these species to confirm the origins of these fish. "
    This was something they picked up in the Taung Dam. They had a full article on it in the Original Flyfisherman about two months ago. The reason was that the Smallmouths and the Largemouths started cross breeding. Thus the whole fuss!

  9. #19
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    Well nobody REALLY knows for sure, therein lies the problem.

    Technically speaking the SmallMouth and LargeMouth spawn at completely different times in the year so even though it's possible, the chances would be slim. Then again you never know when a big SM starts living under delusions of being a LM.

    Even so, I don't for one second think that this would be a 'new' development, it's not like SM and LM havn't been occupying the same waters for thousands of years, so there would have been cases of hybridisation predating the current ones by a few millenia.

    It would be interresting to find out wether the Middelbekke are sterile if indeed they are a hybrid.
    "Hierdie drol het baie vlieë" - Ago 2014.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhumpy View Post
    FOSAF
    THE FEDERATION OF SOUTHERN AFRICAN FLYFISHERS
    PROCEEDINGS OF THE 12TH YELLOWFISH WORKING GROUP
    CONFERENCE JONKERSHOEK 14 – 16 MARCH 2008
    Edited by Peter Arderne



    • Anglers started catching “weird” looking yellowfish for the last 3 to 5years.
    • It has become famous as “middelbekke” (middlemouths)
    • Two distinctive characteristics of these “middelbekke” are the positioning of their eyes and the form of their mouths. The eyes are placed higher on the skull, and the mouths are bigger and a somewhat harder structure with the incisors (lips) coming together further behind the nostrils compared with what is common in smallmouths.
    • The socalled “middelbek” has been caught on small nymph patterns through to bulky streamer type flies. This shows an adaptation to a variety of different types and size of food.
    • Normal small and largemouth yellowfish are also being caught in the dam.
    • The “middelbek” is by no means a smaller breed, as fish in access of 2 kg are being caught in the dam.
    • There are two bodies of opinion on the theory of the evolution of the “middelbek”. One group sees this as a hybrid, between the two species, as they were forced to spawn together on the scarce mining gravel found in certain parts of the dam. This was left many years ago when alluvial diamonds were being prospected for along the river. A local fisherman/club member has been fishing the dam for a decade now, and has told me that spawning can start late August to early September in the dam, due to the strong winds blowing at that time. It should also be taken into account that the area is always warmer than in the Highveld (38 C warmer), and it seems possible that the shallows could warm up quicker.
    • The second group sees the “middelbek” as an adaptation towards its surroundings/environment. The dam does not have much insect life compared with the Vaal. It seems the dam lends itself more to a more predation/ piscivorous lifestyle as there is an abundance of smaller fish. There is also plenty of rock & tree structure and very clear water with 23 metre visibility at times. It is believed that part of the smallmouth population has adapted to this type of lifestyle, and are breeding because small “middelbekke” (300500g) are also being caught.
    • It should be noted that fishing on this dam is difficult at best of times, and a guide is a prerequisite, and even then the fishing can be heartbreak and neck break.
    • Request has been made from the NCYWG for a genetic analysis of these species to confirm the origins of these fish. "
    Slaan my met 'n pap snoek........ek het nooit geweet so iets bestaan nie!!! Does someone have a pic of this fish?

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