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Thread: Fishermen and the law: Trespassing / Poaching

  1. #1
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    Default Fishermen and the law: Trespassing / Poaching

    Fellow FFFs (Fly-Fising Folk),

    I have put off placing this post since October this year, as it is 1 of those that will probably receive a lot of traffic, and will cause havoc, confusion, and just generally open a HUGE can of worms as there are many practical examples from which questions are bound to rise when you read this.

    WARNING: If you are a law obiding citizen, and treasure your fly-fishing 'freedom', maybe you should consider not reading this, at least then you can honestly claim "I did not know!".

    During October I e-mailed Morne Viljoen, he is a legal consultant specialising in environmental, water and mining law at CLS Consulting (Pty) Ltd, he writes in the Stywe Lyne (The Angler and the Law).

    Here is my e-mail (shortened):

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Hi Morne,

    I have a question based on an article Andrew Levy wrote in TCFF magazine, Vol 167, Nov 2008 (p.16 - "It's all a question of rules.") - hopefully you can clarify. I need info on poaching - the law, as referred to.

    "..., never ever fish where you do not have permission. It is poaching, and involves several breaches of criminal law."

    There are also posts on fly-fishing forums that have highlighted that at venues such as Ben Joh / Vaal de Sioleh (Parys) we (fly-fishers) are actually moving of the venue where we paid for entrance, and is fishing the adjacent land or farm. Now, this obviously bothers me and I want know my rights.

    Isn't rivers (not talking about the adjacent land) 'no-man's land' ?

    It is important that I understand, especially since we have bought inflatable boats and go about on the Vaalriver as we please - but NOT onto any property (land) as such.

    Can you please clarify?

    I have also heard that certain farmers will shoot at fly-fishers if on 'his property', as "his land extends to the middle of the river"!

    This is also a confusing point, is the land ownership to the water's edge, the flood line or the middle of the river? Or, does this differ from province to province?

    Your feedback will be greatly appreciated.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Morne's response:

    " Hi Barend

    Andrew is correct.

    Generally, the riparian owner's land stretches to the middle of the river. This include islands (or parts thereof) which is on his side of the river.

    The Vaal is a bit different. Ownership does not necessarily go up to the middle of the river, but as far as is stated in the title deed.
    It might therefore, extend over the middle of the river. I will use the general rule to be safe.

    NOTE: See reply to post w.r.t. 'Vaal River Treaty Agreement' i.t.o. history that ties up with what Morne is referring to here.

    Wading in the river on property i.r.o which you do not have permission is trespassing.

    W.r.t boats/canoes: The water does not belong to the property owner. It belongs to all the citizens of the country. You can therefore not trespass while you are drifting on the water in a boat/canoe. However, if you are anchored on his side of the river, or get out to wade or fish, it might be construed as trespassing.

    Please note that the National Water Act 36 of 1998 states that a person may - for recreational purposes -
    (i) use the water or the water surface of a water resource to which that person has lawful access; or
    (ii) portage any boat or canoe on any land adjacent to a watercourse in order to continue boating on that watercourse.

    Regards

    Morné Viljoen
    Environmental Law Department
    CLS Consulting Services (Pty) Ltd
    E-mail morne.viljoen@consult-cls.com "

    --------------------

    Morne's second response based on more e-mails from myself:


    "Drifting is not trespassing - only getting out on somebody's property is."

    -------------------

    Some of my immediate thoughts:

    1. Elgro Drift?
    2. Where does certain popular venues start / stop as there can be multiple fences on a large farm or piece of land (e.g. Eastco, Arendsnes, Ben Joh / Vaal de Sioleh)?
    3. Hmmm, great, the middle Vaal / Parys area just had to be the exception to the rule - so we will always wonder... continuous but slow drifting from now on
    4. Where does this leave us FFs if we do get shot and we are actually found guilty of trespassing?

  2. #2
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    Default Vaal River Treaty Agreement

    http://www.parys.info/discoverparys_vaalriver.htm

    "ISLANDS IN THE VAAL RIVER
    THE SOLUTION OF A BOUNDARY DISPUTE

    In the history of the South African Republic and the Orange Free State, boundary questions played an important part. One of these was the problem of the islands in the Vaal River. Numerous islands occur over a distance of several hundred kilometres from Lindeque’s Drift down stream as far a Christiana. Dense networks of islands occur in three places, namely, Parys, Dood’s Drift and Christiana. The biggest island, with an area of about 180 acres is Groot Eiland, which is situated just below Parys. A variety of wild trees grow on the islands, and many farmers ploughed the islands to grow crops or used them for grazing.

    In 1883 some Transvaal farmers sent a petition with farms opposite Parys to the Transvaal Volksraad, complaining that squatters who were causing great damage to the owners of these farms were occupying certain islands in the Vaal River from time to time. Not only did they rob the farmers of stock, but they also kept diseased animals, which became a threat to the neighbourhood. White refugees also used the islands as hiding-places to escape Commando service/ No legal steps could be taken as the islands were generally regarded as neutral ground over which nether republican government had control. The memorialists requested that a joint Commission should be appointed by both Governments to inspect these islands, divide them and, if necessary, to lease them.

    The opinion which the Transvaal State Attorney, Carl Ueckermann, gave to President Paul Kruger was: “Islands in running waters, according to Roman-Dutch Law, belong to the owners of the ground to which they are nearest …” The State Attorney of the Orange Free State, C.J. Vels, disagreed by stating that where a river forms a boundary between two states, the middle of the river constitutes the boundary. He added that farmers of both states were ploughing on the same island opposite Vredefort. President Brand also consulted his Surveyor General, J.C. Fleck, who reported that he had surveyed all the farms along the Vaal River to the middle of the river.

    Both Governments appointed Island Commissions with one member of each Commission being a surveyor. The instructions to the Commissions were:
    • To determine the main stream of the river.
    • To allot any island to the State from which it was not separated by the main stream.
    • In cases where two branches of the river occur of equal strength, the islands had to be allotted to either State on an equitable basis.

    The Commissions met for the first time on the 8th November 1887 at Parys. Their first task was to fix the meaning of the words “main stream”. According to the rule of the Waterworks’ Engineers, the main stream of a river is the branch through which in a certain time (for instance, one minute) with half full banks, the largest quantity of water passes.
    This is derived from the breath of the stream, the depth and velocity of the water. The water line of the main stream is a curved line in the river, and it is easy after fixing this line, called by experts “Thalweg” (the greatest line of depression) is the natural boundary between both states of these places where islands occur; but this line also exists where there are no islands. Here the Commission recommended that the middle line between the two banks should be taken as the line of jurisdiction.

    Starting at Lindeque’s Drift on the 9th November, the two Commissions proceeded to determine the main stream and to allot the islands. A speedy completion of the works was necessary in view of the impending floods. Both surveyors, therefore, made their sketches independently and compared them. Where the islands lay close together the Commission recommended that proper surveys should be made. This was later done at Christiana and Parys.

    The large islands at and below Parys were the cause of some disputes between the Commissions. Fortunately agreement was reached and later the division of the islands along the lower portion of the river proceeded rapidly. According to the division agreed upon by the Commissions, the South African Republic was allotted 101 islands with an area of 435 acres an the Free State received 94 islands with an area of 311 acres.

    The Vaal River Island Treaty was signed by President Paul Kruger on the 12th March 1895 and by Acting President Blignaut of the Orange Free State on the 22nd April 1895. In the treaty it was agreed that the two banks of the Vaal River would be the boundary, except at Parys and Christiana where the boundary would be as indicated on the maps attached to the treaty. The Assemblies of both States ratified the Treaty soon after it was signed by the State Presidents."

  3. #3
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    Been a while since I read a post from top-to-bottom, intresting read...
    Mike McKeown

    You're either fishing or waiting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXiMuM View Post
    Been a while since I read a post from top-to-bottom, intresting read...
    Yes, but seemingly on the Vaal seems to be in the firing line so to speak. We seem to be OK in WTA country
    Mario Geldenhuys
    Smallstream fanatic, plus I do some other things that I can't tell you about

    "All the tips or magical insights in the world can't replace devotion, dedication, commitment, and gumption - and there is not secret in that" - Glenn Brackett

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    Can't say I have'nt heard the crack of a 12 gauge... and what sounded like rain, not to far away from me...
    Mike McKeown

    You're either fishing or waiting...

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    ouch!! and i was just waiting for some certain land owner (*hoes schoemans) to come and try chase me away so i could send him to hell cuz im wading no mans land and climbed into and out on bridge..

    this is gonna make things interesting.. looks like we ff are going to have to carry shotguns ourselves!! 2 okes fish while one oke plays sentinel.. what a shame

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    Extremey interesting read, I have been lucky sofar, I tend to break away from the crowds and wade long ways up and down stream. No one tried to shoot at me yet. But then again whenever I wade and see someone on the bank, I make my way to them and ask them if they are the land owner or only fishermen. If they claim ownership, I ask if they mind me wading around a bit. Strange that most say that they have no problem.
    PK

    I am haunted by waters - Norman Maclean

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyFanatic View Post
    looks like we ff are going to have to carry shotguns ourselves!! 2 okes fish while one oke plays sentinel.. what a shame
    Or you could just do the right thing, go up to the farmer, offer him R50 for the day or ask what his day fee is, pay him, and fish in safety.
    "Hierdie drol het baie vlie" - Ago 2014.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scythe View Post
    Or you could just do the right thing, go up to the farmer, offer him R50 for the day or ask what his day fee is, pay him, and fish in safety.
    I STILL say that getting a sort of an Association and forming beats that can be booked is the best way to go.

    I will mail Dave Walker, and ask him if I may post his WTA Chairman's Report for 2008. It should make a lot of sense relevant to this thread ...
    Mario Geldenhuys
    Smallstream fanatic, plus I do some other things that I can't tell you about

    "All the tips or magical insights in the world can't replace devotion, dedication, commitment, and gumption - and there is not secret in that" - Glenn Brackett

  10. #10
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    All I can say is, any farmer who shoots at me while possibly trespassing on his land is going to be in serious sh!t if he misses, I'll make damn sure of that. You cant just shoot at people anymore, not unless your life is in serious and imminent danger.
    "Innocence is a wild trout. But we humans, being complicated, have to pursue innocence in complex ways" - Datus Proper

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