Are We Missing Something???

[E.T.]

I would like to refer to the Front Page of the New Tight Lines Mag, the one with the 15kg plus Large Mouth Yellow on it. That fish has a head like a Cob.
Could't help myself taking this copy home. Now on pages 64-66 they discuss fishing for yellows on artlure.

Now you will note the monster LM caught by Nic Louw and the Massive LS caught by Rudolph Venter on a Salmo Hornet No.4.

Now I know that there are very good patterns available on the market and synthetics are sure taking baitfish patterns to a new level. And yes there is a matter of success to be had with these sort of flies. What I am not getting is that the artlure okes goes out and catch some good fish constantly.

What is it then? Is it the lure itself? The action as it swims in the water? The rattle sounds? I believe that the plop into the water is a key attractor. On lure I once caught 2 Barbel and a Makriel(Butter Barbel) in 3 casts.

Shouldn't we as flyfishers/ tyers start implementing rattles, cones, lips, etc. to our patterns?

On Sterkies we go fine tippets and pretty small flies and with a stealthy approach while the Artlure okes catch just as many and maybe better sized SM Yellows on lures like Salmo Minnows? I have seen some good sized LM from Sterkies caught on lures.

I am looking at new baitfish patterns and ways to improve action, profile, hook-ups for fresh and saltwater and I came accross a guy named Jonny King. Google the name and you will find some patterns on Facebook. He also has some videos on Youtube. He has some lovely patterns and a rattle tied in might just do the trick.

Is there anything else out there? Should we stick to what we have available or is there any hope in catching that throphy yellow consistantly.

Don't know about you, but I am tired of catching smallish LS and SS Yellows. Have caught a brute of a SM Yellow on Fly, but the LM has elluded me till now and I think that this year I might just get lucky.

[dar]

I caught a sm with a crankbait at Heia while targeting bass. I was very surprised?

I also saw a guy on the BETT programme at Sterkies hook into a nice sized smallie on a lipless crankbait???? I think he said they target the yellows when the bass have lockjaw???!!

[Bryan]

I have incorporated lips into my latest batch of baitfish imitations that I tied last week for our largie trip. I can't take credit for this idea though as it was done after a conversation with Murray Pedder, who has been doing this for a while.

These are just a couple of examples. You will see on the black one that there is a red "hotspot" of sorts on the bend of the hook shank. This is a couple of wraps of lead with th red thread wrapped over it to keep it in place. This changes the center of gravity of the fly and allows it to pivot around the lip in a more effective way.

I have tested these in the pool and the movement generated makes them look incredibly lifelike.

[troutmaster]

Bryan, did you make the lips yourself? And, how to these flies cast?

Wrt the thread, my 1 buddy is a bassing-guy and we have always said that in our opinion an artlure angler can cover more water and much faster that a FF; Accuracy on long casts are probably also easier with artlure.

Time will tell; we will have various FF folk on our August LM trip and 1 hard-core artlure guy, so we will see 1st hand over 3 days how the stats play out.

[poppernel]

Bryan, did you make the lips yourself? And, how to these flies cast?

Wrt the thread, my 1 buddy is a bassing-guy and we have always said that in our opinion an artlure angler can cover more water and much faster that a FF; Accuracy on long casts are probably also easier with artlure.

Time will tell; we will have various FF folk on our August LM trip and 1 hard-core artlure guy, so we will see 1st hand over 3 days how the stats play out.

Barend, I tied and used a lip fitted wiggle damsel for trout which worked just great. Just on flies, don't go to big with the lip, can spin when casting.

On the ff/artlure issue, dont under estimate the fly to artlure fishing. I once ff Groendal dam with fly off my kickboat against 2 artlure buddies off a boat. I outfished them big time. 69 Bass to their 15 between them. 11 of my fish where caught at the last bay we fished before going home. My 11 to their 0.

Also have estuary ff against artlure and livebait guys one sunday while tutoring a newby on catching leeries. He caught his very first 2 leeries, I landed 4, the other guys ziltz..nada..nothing.

All depends on choices you make and being positive fishing them.

DAVE

[firephish]

I've fished with quite a few artlure and dropshot aficonados - and almost always been out fished. These rigs impart awsome action, can present with finness when required and cast a mile into the face of a howling gale. They cover water like i can only dream of - shallow, deep, fast, slow, no problem ... yet i have never thought of switching from fly tackle ...

Maybe a better question than "are we missing out?" is "Why do we fly fish?"

If it was just about catching fish we would all be baiting up with crabs or worms.

So why do I like spending my free time in winter standing balls deep in freezing water, flipping over rocks to look at bugs, struggling to cast past 20 meters whenever the wind pics up above 5 m/s ... only to blank 9 times out of 10. What is the a real purpose then? Since it does not appear to be about catching fish?

It seems to me there is something slightly irrational, perhaps enigmatic and esoteric about those who fly fish for largies. Maybe it has more to do with largies themselves and the places they are found - they are our ultimate fresh water game fish, pure power, and when hooked on a fly, a large fish provides an incomparible experience to any other method of fishing - the raw power of fish as a fly line burns between your fingers is somethig a dropshot or baitcaster will never be able to relate too ..

So too the experience of fly casting on a chilly vaal morning - watching a tight loop unfold through the air as the first rays of the sun burn off the mist in a remote side channel - the gentle "plop of the fly" and the slow, purposeful retrive as the fly swings across the current - all the time waiting for the thumping take as the fish burns off backing - ah, perhaps one day ... fly fishing for largies is dedication - never give up!

Yes, for me its is the experience of the pursuit of largies, not in their capture that is the attraction. The vaal in winter feels timeless and remote, the qarry elusive - the combination almost spirtual.

I know the fish are scarce, their habitat depleted, their very existance under threat - yet we have to believe there are a few fish in the river, even if for weeks on end it seems that we are just going through the motions of cast and retrieve.

This is not a game of numbers. That i leave to the hardware chuckers and bass masters - it is anathama. Perhaps largie fly fishers are ultimately masochists! But the long cold days make the eventual reward that much sweeter. The papgooers, dropshotists and hardware chuckers can condemn us as ‘crazy’, they can follow the path of least resistance and shake their heads in disbelief “a whole week trip, and only one fish landed?� Yes ... What a fantastic trip it was!


For me largie fishing should be difficult. This is what makes it what it is. So as the first frosts leaves the river deserted and the mists settle over quiet back channels I will be out on the river. No short cuts. A single fly, a fly rod and line. The equipment shows restraint and respect for the fish and the pursuit.

The appreciation gained through time and dues paid is a truer appreciation.

Then again maybe i am as mad as a hatter

[Bryan]

[QUOTE=troutmaster;190521]Bryan, did you make the lips yourself? And, how to these flies cast?
QUOTE]

Yes, I made the lips out of plastic container that held some fly tying hooks. You can bend and shape the flat pieces but i find it better to use the corners, as per the pic, as they are already pre-curved.

Haven't test casted them yet but will be giving them a trial run out on the water tomorrow for the seasons first largie hunt

[poppernel]

Barend, I tied and used a lip fitted wiggle damsel for trout which worked just great. Just on flies, don't go to big with the lip, can spin when casting.

On the ff/artlure issue, dont under estimate the fly to artlure fishing. I once ff Groendal dam with fly off my kickboat against 2 artlure buddies off a boat. I outfished them big time. 69 Bass to their 15 between them. 11 of my fish where caught at the last bay we fished before going home. My 11 to their 0.

Also have estuary ff against artlure and livebait guys one sunday while tutoring a newby on catching leeries. He caught his very first 2 leeries, I landed 4, the other guys ziltz..nada..nothing.

All depends on choices you make and being positive fishing them.

DAVE

Was not meant as a ''brag'' post, but a decision reminder.

I've fished with quite a few artlure and dropshot aficonados - and almost always been out fished. These rigs impart awsome action, can present with finness when required and cast a mile into the face of a howling gale. They cover water like i can only dream of - shallow, deep, fast, slow, no problem ... yet i have never thought of switching from fly tackle ...

Maybe a better question than "are we missing out?" is "Why do we fly fish?"

If it was just about catching fish we would all be baiting up with crabs or worms.

So why do I like spending my free time in winter standing balls deep in freezing water, flipping over rocks to look at bugs, struggling to cast past 20 meters whenever the wind pics up above 5 m/s ... only to blank 9 times out of 10. What is the a real purpose then? Since it does not appear to be about catching fish?

It seems to me there is something slightly irrational, perhaps enigmatic and esoteric about those who fly fish for largies. Maybe it has more to do with largies themselves and the places they are found - they are our ultimate fresh water game fish, pure power, and when hooked on a fly, a large fish provides an incomparible experience to any other method of fishing - the raw power of fish as a fly line burns between your fingers is somethig a dropshot or baitcaster will never be able to relate too ..

So too the experience of fly casting on a chilly vaal morning - watching a tight loop unfold through the air as the first rays of the sun burn off the mist in a remote side channel - the gentle "plop of the fly" and the slow, purposeful retrive as the fly swings across the current - all the time waiting for the thumping take as the fish burns off backing - ah, perhaps one day ... fly fishing for largies is dedication - never give up!

Yes, for me its is the experience of the pursuit of largies, not in their capture that is the attraction. The vaal in winter feels timeless and remote, the qarry elusive - the combination almost spirtual.

I know the fish are scarce, their habitat depleted, their very existance under threat - yet we have to believe there are a few fish in the river, even if for weeks on end it seems that we are just going through the motions of cast and retrieve.

This is not a game of numbers. That i leave to the hardware chuckers and bass masters - it is anathama. Perhaps largie fly fishers are ultimately masochists! But the long cold days make the eventual reward that much sweeter. The papgooers, dropshotists and hardware chuckers can condemn us as ‘crazy’, they can follow the path of least resistance and shake their heads in disbelief “a whole week trip, and only one fish landed?” Yes ... What a fantastic trip it was!


For me largie fishing should be difficult. This is what makes it what it is. So as the first frosts leaves the river deserted and the mists settle over quiet back channels I will be out on the river. No short cuts. A single fly, a fly rod and line. The equipment shows restraint and respect for the fish and the pursuit.

The appreciation gained through time and dues paid is a truer appreciation.

Then again maybe i am as mad as a hatter

Great post mad hatter, that we are but in gale force winds, one/you still have options, in estuaries that is, but in salt/surf, lick your wounds and walk away, a better ff experience under better conditions will define the best fisher. Remember, distance/ choice/presentation and location is the winner in the end.

Dave

[E.T.]

Boys

I think you are missing my point here. I want to know if we can incorporate some of the elements of lures into flies as for baitfish patterns in particular.

I am talking about action, shape/profile, the way it behaves in the water, etc.
We all know that Rapala has accounted for numerous world records all over. So the question remains, what can we do to better our patterns to hook trophy yellows on baitfish patterns. Up till now we have targeted Yellows(SM, SS, LS, Papermouth, Whitefish, etc.) on smallish flies like nymhs. I am thinking that we could open up something completely new by looking at the properties of lures.

Why do massive LS Yellows hit Salmo Minnows while we as flyfishers struggle to hook one bigger than 20cm on fly? Is it because these lures are retrieved at the right dephth? So how do we make our baitfish flies swim at the right depth without adding a ton of weight? How do we create a fly to immitate a dying baitfish?

The dying baitfish darting on its side, I have accomplished with a Puglishi Baitfish tied with domed plastic dolls eyes glued to it. A killer for bass.

Here are a few patterns that will push water, cause disturbance based on profile etc....

Ala Jonny King....

[E.T.]

A few more...