Email to Oord Nebo - 10/03/2011

[Herman Jooste]

Guys. Is there a certain Herman Loubscher on this forum, the one that often fishes Nebo? I'd like to get in touch with him. Cheers

Jacques he is in the Forum. His "handle" is I think 0026 ????????.

I know it's numerical, mabe a search wiil help

[MyWorld]

http://www.flytalk.co.za/forum/member.php?u=757

That is Oom Herman's profile.

We (uncle Herman and I) were there yesterday and all I can say is that the owners are floored by the steady stream of "harassment" they received.

I'm not taking sides on this debate, but something they mentioned is that no one wants to help them. They have responded to numerous emails asking help in either:
1) Law - documents stating what is allowed and not on the river
2) Advice - how to police the water

No one responded favourably. Instead, they claimed they were verbally abused by some FF, I hope it is not someone on this forum, swak, uiters swak.

Uncle Herman did a stellar job of hunting down all the documents (legal and otherwise) he could lay his hands on, and he even introduced the owners of Oord Nebo to FOSAF. They mentioned that everything will most probably go to their lawyers to help them make sense of all this mess.
Lets see what comes of this.

It was a crude wake up call, and one they needed I'm sure. There are a few more venues that need a wake up call like this.

The problem is a lack of knowledge from the owners as well as some fishermen.
I'm going out on a limb here but they (owners) did not even know what a spawning bed was and where they were.
We offered to download a map from Google earth and mark the spawning beds for them so that they can laminate it and place it in the office for everyone to see.
The woman was so grateful she could not stop thanking us, and again, uncle Herman went out of his way to help them with all their queries.

Now a serious question I want to ask all FF on here, have you done your part? Or are we fighting a fight from behind a keyboard?

I would suggest that FlyTalk start a "river owners forum" (name sucks, I know), one near Goosbay and one near Potch, and have quarterly meetings with all owners of venues next to the Vaal, inviting them to bring questions to the table, to give them advice on better policing and policy regarding conservation, etc. If this does not work then we must walk the extra mile and drive to all the venues and do the above mentioned. It will be nothing extra for most of us, once we finished our days fishing we can sit down for a chat with the owners.

I'm willing to throw my weight behind the Potch group. Know one thing that almost all yellowfish forums and work groups like the one I have now mentioned have died a painful death. Either that of they shine in their absence.
It will take a lot of tears to get everyone participating and eventually we will be making a HUGE difference, and this will be a long term commitment, year after year.

IMHO those yellowfish conservation name plaques mentioned earlier means nothing, how many years has it been since anyone (nature conservation, FOSAF, any yellowfish work group, whoever) visited any of these venues mentioned to monitor anything yellowfish related?

How can we expect the owners to do their best at policing whatever policy if we, and I include all us FF up north, do not get involved in their fight as well? We need to put something in their hands, something they can use so that we can all walk away satisfied.

To think I came out of over a years drought to share this...

[wernerm]

JJ, where in the North West are you? I'd like to help if possible my side

[MyWorld]

I'm also from Potch.

[GrahamS]

I'm going out on a limb here but they (owners) did not even know what a spawning bed was and where they were.

They were shown a client, of theirs, with 20-30 yellows on a string. 2 days in a row! And they did NOTHING because "He is a regular". Lack of legal knowledge etc. etc. doesn't even come into it. They rely on people staying over in their chalets, and they are to scared to lose the business if they clamp down on them. While I sympathize with them over the potential loss of income, the river is not theirs to use and abuse as they see fit.

[Monster]

Hi Monster,

I like the idea, but we have to have support from as many members of the forum as possible, else this will not work:

Current list of venues I have visited listed from the barrage towards and past Parys:

1. Erina - now closed
2. Eagles - now closed
3. Yellow fish paradise
4. Strydoms
5. Strome
6. Eendekuil
7. EastCo
8. Smilin Thru
9. Otters Haunt
10. Dimalachite
11. Hukana Mata
12. Benjoh
13. Elgro
14. Raaswater
15. Oord Nebo

I think out of the above Elgro is probably the only venue actively policed....

Hi Gents

You are right it doesn't help we just ***** and moan about these guys. Starting an owners thread is a brilliant idea to educate these owners. oord Nebo is a good example. Does any one have mail adderesses for these abovementioned resorts? Admin can we start a new subject on the main page to which we can invite these guys and maby sticky note Law and Fosaf ens details to the top of it?

[schloshd1]

http://www.flytalk.co.za/forum/member.php?u=757

That is Oom Herman's profile.

We (uncle Herman and I) were there yesterday and all I can say is that the owners are floored by the steady stream of "harassment" they received.

I'm not taking sides on this debate, but something they mentioned is that no one wants to help them. They have responded to numerous emails asking help in either:
1) Law - documents stating what is allowed and not on the river
2) Advice - how to police the water

No one responded favourably. Instead, they claimed they were verbally abused by some FF, I hope it is not someone on this forum, swak, uiters swak.

Uncle Herman did a stellar job of hunting down all the documents (legal and otherwise) he could lay his hands on, and he even introduced the owners of Oord Nebo to FOSAF. They mentioned that everything will most probably go to their lawyers to help them make sense of all this mess.
Lets see what comes of this.

It was a crude wake up call, and one they needed I'm sure. There are a few more venues that need a wake up call like this.

The problem is a lack of knowledge from the owners as well as some fishermen.
I'm going out on a limb here but they (owners) did not even know what a spawning bed was and where they were.
We offered to download a map from Google earth and mark the spawning beds for them so that they can laminate it and place it in the office for everyone to see.
The woman was so grateful she could not stop thanking us, and again, uncle Herman went out of his way to help them with all their queries.

Now a serious question I want to ask all FF on here, have you done your part? Or are we fighting a fight from behind a keyboard?

I would suggest that FlyTalk start a "river owners forum" (name sucks, I know), one near Goosbay and one near Potch, and have quarterly meetings with all owners of venues next to the Vaal, inviting them to bring questions to the table, to give them advice on better policing and policy regarding conservation, etc. If this does not work then we must walk the extra mile and drive to all the venues and do the above mentioned. It will be nothing extra for most of us, once we finished our days fishing we can sit down for a chat with the owners.

I'm willing to throw my weight behind the Potch group. Know one thing that almost all yellowfish forums and work groups like the one I have now mentioned have died a painful death. Either that of they shine in their absence.
It will take a lot of tears to get everyone participating and eventually we will be making a HUGE difference, and this will be a long term commitment, year after year.

IMHO those yellowfish conservation name plaques mentioned earlier means nothing, how many years has it been since anyone (nature conservation, FOSAF, any yellowfish work group, whoever) visited any of these venues mentioned to monitor anything yellowfish related?

How can we expect the owners to do their best at policing whatever policy if we, and I include all us FF up north, do not get involved in their fight as well? We need to put something in their hands, something they can use so that we can all walk away satisfied.

To think I came out of over a years drought to share this...

I'm not sure who's emails they responded to asking for advice/help but they definitely did not respond at all to mine or another forum member's mails when we let them know our concerns.
I'm not going to get into that matter any further but I was there and know what I saw/experienced that weekend.

However well done to you and Uncle Herman, that is a very positive step in the right direction.

[redhumpy]

If you look at our regulations you will see that the bag limit for Small Mouth Yellowfish are 2 per day wit a minimum size of 300mm.

Here is a link to the document that can be printed and given to the owners.

http://www.nwpg.gov.za/Economic%20De...ing%20Regs.pdf

Maybe a more radical step, but maybe necessary, would be to propose to government that just like with hunting and shad fishing there should be a closed season for targeting Yellowfish namely 1 September - 1 November.

[saml]

http://www.flytalk.co.za/forum/member.php?u=757

That is Oom Herman's profile.

We (uncle Herman and I) were there yesterday and all I can say is that the owners are floored by the steady stream of "harassment" they received.

I'm not taking sides on this debate, but something they mentioned is that no one wants to help them. They have responded to numerous emails asking help in either:
1) Law - documents stating what is allowed and not on the river
2) Advice - how to police the water

No one responded favourably. Instead, they claimed they were verbally abused by some FF, I hope it is not someone on this forum, swak, uiters swak.

Uncle Herman did a stellar job of hunting down all the documents (legal and otherwise) he could lay his hands on, and he even introduced the owners of Oord Nebo to FOSAF. They mentioned that everything will most probably go to their lawyers to help them make sense of all this mess.
Lets see what comes of this.

It was a crude wake up call, and one they needed I'm sure. There are a few more venues that need a wake up call like this.

The problem is a lack of knowledge from the owners as well as some fishermen.
I'm going out on a limb here but they (owners) did not even know what a spawning bed was and where they were.
We offered to download a map from Google earth and mark the spawning beds for them so that they can laminate it and place it in the office for everyone to see.
The woman was so grateful she could not stop thanking us, and again, uncle Herman went out of his way to help them with all their queries.

Now a serious question I want to ask all FF on here, have you done your part? Or are we fighting a fight from behind a keyboard?

I would suggest that FlyTalk start a "river owners forum" (name sucks, I know), one near Goosbay and one near Potch, and have quarterly meetings with all owners of venues next to the Vaal, inviting them to bring questions to the table, to give them advice on better policing and policy regarding conservation, etc. If this does not work then we must walk the extra mile and drive to all the venues and do the above mentioned. It will be nothing extra for most of us, once we finished our days fishing we can sit down for a chat with the owners.

I'm willing to throw my weight behind the Potch group. Know one thing that almost all yellowfish forums and work groups like the one I have now mentioned have died a painful death. Either that of they shine in their absence.
It will take a lot of tears to get everyone participating and eventually we will be making a HUGE difference, and this will be a long term commitment, year after year.

IMHO those yellowfish conservation name plaques mentioned earlier means nothing, how many years has it been since anyone (nature conservation, FOSAF, any yellowfish work group, whoever) visited any of these venues mentioned to monitor anything yellowfish related?

How can we expect the owners to do their best at policing whatever policy if we, and I include all us FF up north, do not get involved in their fight as well? We need to put something in their hands, something they can use so that we can all walk away satisfied.

To think I came out of over a years drought to share this...

I certainly will not join the debate of whether or not verbal abuse was deserved or not as I was not there to witness their response to the concerns expressed to them.

But I think a river owners forum is a brilliant idea, not only as a sticky thread like someone mentioned above, but also with regular meetings, maybe two or three times a year, with these land owners, concerned fisherman, concerned environmentalists etc. much like what I imagine the YWG meetings are like.

There is enough passion behind this cause to get things going, the only questionable resource is, of course, money. Organisations like YWG should be getting some of the money that is raised from freshwater fishing licenses. I know that at the moment there is probably next to nothing being raised form freshwater fishing licenses, but if it was clear that the money was actually going towards conservation of our rivers, and on top of that the licenses are easily obtained, well advertised and well policed then I think things would be different.

There needs to be a complete overhaul of the licensing system. The policing of the licenses could be done by the land owners themselves, like I've said before - I don't see them turning people away as this would mean they lose money, but they could charge a higher day fee for unlicensed fisherman and encourage them to get one for next time.

[MyWorld]

I'm not sure who's emails they responded to asking for advice/help but they definitely did not respond at all to mine or another forum member's mails when we let them know our concerns.
I'm not going to get into that matter any further but I was there and know what I saw/experienced that weekend.

However well done to you and Uncle Herman, that is a very positive step in the right direction.

Again, I'm not taking sides on this, and you know what you saw and what you tried doing to stop the slaughter, so I cannot argue with that.

They did confront the perpetrator and he just blasted away with arguments that according to law he is allowed to kill the fish (hence the documents they requested). Long story short, he is never going to Oord Nebo and will never be fishing that water again.

What really needs to be done at almost all FF venues is to start a booking system. Water pressure is also insane this time of the year. It has been months and months of fishing drought and everybody is hitting the water hard.
With a booking system you can monitor:
*) Who is on the water
*) How many people are on the water - only a set limit is allowed
*) Have their particulars in case you need it to take steps against them like mentioned here.

It will be hard to implement, but we must actually push all venues in this direction.

Anyway, I did nothing, uncle Herman is the one who is doing his best in this case. Oord Nebo is his second home after all.
If someone wants to start with the idea I mentioned in an earlier post, just PM me and we can see if we can again start a work group.